What happens when a love for culinary artistry and an eye for design collide? For Abney Harper, founder of Prima Après, it meant creating a dining experience that’s equal parts thoughtful, delicious, and unexpected. In this episode, Abney shares her journey of turning fine dining craftsmanship into a fast-casual concept that feels anything but ordinary.

Key Highlights:

Turning Creativity into a Culinary Concept (1:14)

“I wanted something unexpected—pasta and pavlova together tell a story that’s deeply personal to me.” – Abney Harper

Abney reflects on how her love for Parisian meringues and handcrafted pasta inspired a unique dining experience that feels both familiar and fresh.

Making Fine Dining Accessible (2:36)

“The same pasta that was $50 in my fine dining restaurant is now available at a price anyone can enjoy.” – Abney Harper

Learn how Abney transformed her fine dining expertise into a scalable, high-quality fast-casual concept without sacrificing the craftsmanship behind every dish.

Designing for Comfort and Connection (4:07)

“I want people to feel like they’re somewhere special—even if they’re just grabbing takeout.” – Abney Harper

Abney shares how thoughtful design—from custom seating to curated tableware—elevates the guest experience beyond a typical quick-service environment.

Obsessing Over Culinary Details (5:48)

“We use bronze-cut pasta for the perfect texture—guests may not know why it tastes better, but they can feel the difference.” – Abney Harper

Discover how a relentless focus on premium ingredients and traditional techniques ensures every bite at Prima Après is unforgettable.

Hospitality Rooted in Kindness (8:19)

“It’s all about how you make people feel when they walk in—kindness is the heart of hospitality.” – Abney Harper

Abney explains how personal touches and warm interactions define the culture at Prima Après, creating a lasting impression for every guest.

Balancing Vision with Operations (9:55)

“I’m the creative, and my husband manages the operational side—it’s what makes us a strong team.” – Abney Harper

Abney discusses how her partnership with her husband, a restaurant growth expert, helps merge creative vision with operational excellence, driving long-term success.

Who Deserves an Ovation? (12:10)

Abney gives a heartfelt shoutout to her husband, James, for his leadership at Sucré, as well as to restaurateur Dave Query of The Post Chicken & Beer for his passion, talent, and dedication to exceptional guest experiences.

Follow Prima Après:

Website: primaapres.com

Instagram & TikTok: @PrimaApres

For anyone passionate about turning a creative culinary dream into a thriving business, Abney Harper’s journey offers valuable lessons in hospitality, design, and heart-driven entrepreneurship.

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Transcript

Zack

Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience podcast, where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five star guest experience. This podcast is sponsored by ovation, an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions.

00:00:22:03 – 00:00:44:03

Zack

Learn more at ovation up.com. Today I am so excited because we don’t only have someone who is a phenomenal operator, but someone who just has such an engaging social media presence and someone who you meet and you just cannot help but love. She’s the CEO and founder of prima, I pray, and a mutual pizza lover. Yeah.

00:00:44:05 – 00:00:44:20

Abney

Of course.

00:00:44:20 – 00:00:56:20

Zack

Yeah. And if you hit up her Instagram, you will find she’s got a whole series of highlights. Is dedicated to pizza as I do. But Abney, so great to have you on the podcast. How are you?

00:00:56:22 – 00:01:02:21

Abney

Oh my gosh Zach, I’m so happy to be here. I’m great and so happy to see you.

00:01:02:23 – 00:01:14:11

Zack

Likewise. And there may be some people who don’t know about your restaurant. So do you want to kind of give us a little tour of what’s it like, what’s the experience like? And, and what are you doing over there?

00:01:14:13 – 00:01:50:00

Abney

Well thank you. So my husband James and I co-founded a brand called Prima Pré. And it’s a pasta and a pavlova concept. And just on its face, it seems sort of like an odd combination. But the story behind it is so for me, interesting part of like our past and my growth as a chef and restaurateur. And so what it is, is I started in the restaurant business with I had not just a restaurant, but I had fashion and home retail and so I would go to Milan and Paris on buying trips to buy for fashion.

00:01:50:00 – 00:02:10:14

Abney

And when I was in Paris, I kept seeing all of these meringue clouds and I was like, they’re nowhere in the United States. And so I came home, I had a couple of fine dining restaurants in Georgia, and I started making these meringue classic pavlova, and they took off in my restaurant. And so they became my best bestselling dessert also.

00:02:10:14 – 00:02:36:07

Abney

Then I had all these residual leftover residual egg yolks, and I’m like, well, what do I do with them? And so I was making souffles and some custards and things like that. And then I started making fresh pasta with the egg yolks. So in my fine dining background, I had a very small curated menu that changed monthly. So I always had a pasta and I would just use sort of traditional sauces, but those became my best selling entrees.

00:02:36:09 – 00:03:01:15

Abney

And so when Covid hit and we closed my fine dining restaurants, then I was sort of in a massive identity crisis because that had no what to do with myself after that. And so I really was struggling with what to do next. And my husband, who knows and loves you so much, he’s a restaurant growth guy and as you know, scale and for franchising and corporate growth.

00:03:01:15 – 00:03:24:07

Abney

And he was like, why don’t we take some of this and like figure out a way to do something with what you did in your fine dining restaurant? Because I was burned out, I was tired. I didn’t want to operate a restaurant like a one unit restaurant anymore. And so we came up with this concept and like, we just literally like, held up in our apartment and, like, created the business plan for it.

00:03:24:09 – 00:03:50:20

Abney

And we have a chef driven scratch kitchen where we produce fresh passes and sauces. We buy wheels of parmesan Reggiano and Pecorino Romano and, and prosciutto, and we use those as the toppings for our passes. And then we make hamburgers on the other side. So it’s a counter service, quick service concept where you come in and what was a $40 entree and the fine dining concept.

00:03:50:20 – 00:04:07:17

Abney

That was because of all the overhead that is associated. I mean, no, it was a linen, full service, beautiful space. And now what was $40, a $50 pasta dish. And it’s the same offering that was fine dining, but and a quick service concept.

00:04:07:19 – 00:04:11:05

Zack

And the packaging, by the way, is so interesting.

00:04:11:07 – 00:04:33:23

Abney

Thank you. So I, I love it. I think there’s something really sophisticated about those origami white takeout containers. And I sort of love an Asian, and I love sort of when French meats were Asian. And so I love the use of the chopsticks and all of that. And so that’s kind of all went into the design. So I love interior design and I love fashion.

00:04:33:23 – 00:04:47:16

Abney

So I tried to incorporate a lot of that into this brand. Right. So when you come in you kind of it’s a quick service and you just walk in and you could take your pasta to go, or you could take your Pablo over to go, but I want people to want to see it and to want to stay.

00:04:47:18 – 00:05:10:24

Abney

So operationally, it’s so very, very simple. But the spaces that we have two locations and spaces, I’ve worked really hard to create beautiful spaces that make you want to linger. We have wine and that kind of thing. So it’s a really unusual concept and I’ve people don’t really understand it. There’s like an educational component to it to when you they’re like pavlova.

00:05:10:24 – 00:05:17:22

Abney

That doesn’t really make sense. But I think it’s really special and I love it. It’s a really beautiful concept to me. Yeah.

00:05:17:24 – 00:05:38:19

Zack

And as I said, I think you do such a good job of telling the story on your social media and showing how you put it together and how you layer it. And the passes and the sauces. And I’ve actually I’ve even watched different user generated content around people who have tried it out and just their experiences there, that it’s just it’s a really unique, fun experience.

00:05:38:19 – 00:05:48:16

Zack

And I think that that’s really what I want to get to is what do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays, creating such a unique one yourself?

00:05:48:18 – 00:06:14:09

Abney

Well, I feel like guests these days want something new and original and thoughtful. And so what we did and trying to implement that, to sort of meet that guest need, is we actually don’t use egg yolk in our pasta, even though that’s sort of how the concept came originally to be. We use semolina flour and water and we buy the brands dyes, which are the brand size or the like.

00:06:14:09 – 00:06:36:22

Abney

They’re very expensive, but they make a real for a really delicious pasta. They so they create a rough surface area. So the pasta sauce really clings to the pasta. And so people don’t really understand like why it tastes better but tastes better because of the quality of the flour. And there’s no preservatives or additives to it. But also we use that bronze dye that makes our delicious sauces cling to it.

00:06:36:24 – 00:07:00:19

Abney

And so we bought dyes that were unconventional, I mean, not in Italy but to the US. Like I wanted to do pastas that you couldn’t buy in a grocery store. We do have spaghetti, but even the spaghetti, we bought a little bit of a different size and it’s just delicious. And we cut the strands long. So I feel like giving gas something that they can’t have at home.

00:07:00:24 – 00:07:08:04

Abney

But that’s still approachable and still easy for them to do without having to go and have a whole sit down experience.

00:07:08:06 – 00:07:30:06

Zack

Well, and I think that these little details that you’re talking about are so critical because as I was actually just reading your article about Star Wars. And here’s the thing about Star Wars, it’s like there are certain camera shots that you’re not allowed to do, like Lucasfilm will send people to set of any show or a movie that they’re doing about Star Wars.

00:07:30:06 – 00:07:53:11

Zack

And like there’s certain camera shots that they can’t do because it doesn’t have the Star Wars feel. There are no buttons allowed on any costumes in Star Wars. There’s no paper allowed in the background on any Star Wars. Like you can’t have like, a stack of paper on a desk. Like in the Star Wars universe. There are no buttons, there is no paper.

00:07:53:13 – 00:08:15:22

Zack

The camera angles are a certain thing. Now, when you watch a Star Wars show, you’re not like, oh my gosh, look at that Velcro. That’s amazing Velcro. But it’s like, there’s something about it that’s different than other shows. And I think that what you’re talking about with your post, it’s like when you focus in on those details to care about the guest experience, not everyone is going to say, oh, wow.

00:08:15:22 – 00:08:38:02

Zack

The texture of this pasta really allows the sauce to cling to it, but they’ll say, man, this is so much better than going to that restaurant or than buying this in the grocery store and making it at home. Like, even though I’m doing the same exact thing, quote unquote. It’s different. And I think that that attention to detail really comes out.

00:08:38:03 – 00:08:42:06

Zack

Even if people can’t articulate it, they can feel it. Right.

00:08:42:12 – 00:09:07:22

Abney

I love that, I absolutely love that. It’s like the whole, you know, French. You don’t Issaquah thing. Right? Like when you’re saying you just can’t put into words, but you know, there’s something so brilliant behind the creativity of it. And I love that that you say about Star Wars. And that’s what I love about the creative process. When people don’t just they love something, but they just can’t quite put their finger on what they love about it.

00:09:07:24 – 00:09:11:05

Abney

That’s something, you know, you’ve done something special.

00:09:11:07 – 00:09:22:24

Zack

When you woke up this morning, and I bet you were like, I bet you I’m going to talk about Star Wars with someone today. And I you seem like a Star Wars kind of nerd to me right now.

00:09:22:24 – 00:09:28:15

Abney

I would be. No, I’m not, but I have mad appreciation for what you just share.

00:09:28:17 – 00:09:49:01

Zack

And I think that’s the beauty of it. I don’t really get Star Wars either, but I appreciate the little things. And I always tell people maybe in my opinion, the little things matter because they’re the little things I can fake the big things. I could fake the big apology. Let’s go on a trip because I was really rude to you.

00:09:49:01 – 00:10:09:01

Zack

And so I’m going to buy you this trip. But when I asked my wife one time, how do you know that I love you? She said, because you fill up my water bottle at night. And I was like, wait a second, I could have saved how much money? The trip, a piece of jewelry. But those things are somewhat less sincere because they are the big things.

00:10:09:01 – 00:10:17:10

Zack

A little things matter so much. And so with that in mind, what are some tactics I know we’re talking about? Kind of like the details on me.

00:10:17:16 – 00:10:31:19

Abney

That’s that’s so sweet. It reminds me there is a book I read, a Kim, where the aim of it was, oh, I wish you could remember. I’m gonna think of that text you. But it was that same story as it was a friend of C.S. Lewis who wrote the book, and I’m going to remember it at some point.

00:10:31:19 – 00:10:53:14

Abney

But he said that he and his wife, it was about their love story. And he said, what? My wife and I have this thing where if somebody asks for a glass of water in the middle of the night, we always get it because it was the privilege is is that she asked me to get it, you know, and I think that’s so true and so sweet, so I love that.

00:10:53:16 – 00:11:01:13

Zack

Well, good tactic for marriage. What about a tactic for restaurants. Like what are some things that you’ve done to improve the guest experience.

00:11:01:15 – 00:11:30:18

Abney

Oh wow. Well, I hope that what I’ve done to improve the guest experience is just exactly what we’ve been talking about, right? Like, I hope that I have focused on every little detail. And to me, those are the things that I love about the restaurant space. Right? Is like, I love the design of spaces and I love the food, and I love the ambiance and so I think that for me, I measure seat heights of the benches that I had built.

00:11:30:18 – 00:11:49:06

Abney

You know, I measure the table heights to make sure that they hit just where they should hit. I sourced glasses like feel good in the hand and a nice set from. We try to edit the wines that we offer just so you even though it’s you know you’re buying a pasta and a takeaway container, you still want to sit and have a glass of wine while you eat it.

00:11:49:12 – 00:12:00:09

Abney

And so those are the things and those are the details that I hope that tactically I feel like we have given to the guests to enhance their experience.

00:12:00:11 – 00:12:16:18

Zack

And any strategies that you give to people around, like I’m sitting here in my restaurant and I’m like, man, I’m running a pizza joint and hopefully one that you’ll come visit sometime. Abney and so I brought in this ten location pizza joint. Hypothetically, I don’t actually run a ten location pizza joint.

00:12:16:20 – 00:12:21:22

Abney

And you would do a tremendous job. If you did, it would be the best pizza ever.

00:12:21:24 – 00:12:39:18

Zack

I dream about that sometimes and I have nightmares about it other times. But let’s say that, you know, I’m running this pizza joint and I’m like, I get it, Avenue, but I don’t have this fancy idea around my brand. How do I still improve the guest experience? Like, what should I be looking at thinking about?

00:12:39:20 – 00:13:13:05

Abney

I think your offering is exceedingly important, right? Like the always using the highest quality ingredients that you can afford and still make the margins work is the most important thing. I think anything that you can do to make a guest comfortable from an ambient standpoint, you know, as far as like the hospitality and greeting and enhancing their experience, I think anything you can do to make a guest feel special when they walk in the door that when they walk out they felt like, wow, I love that.

00:13:13:05 – 00:13:34:09

Abney

You know, it’s really about the human connection and the restaurant experience. And I feel like that’s what gets lost. And so I think that the quality of the offering and the kindness and the hospitality that’s shared with the guest is absolutely the most important thing. I was talking to somebody yesterday and and he was saying, I come for the food, I come for the ambiance.

00:13:34:09 – 00:13:59:17

Abney

He said. And I care the most about how I’m treated when I walk in the door. I think that’s what we are. We are in the hospitality business and that’s absolutely the most important thing. And as a Southerner who was raised on southern hospitality, it’s really about warmth and greeting and making everybody comfortable and greeting them at the door and walking them out the door and making them feel special.

00:13:59:19 – 00:14:26:13

Zack

Amen. I mean, I had we’ll get there on recently and this podcast and talking to him about hospitality and helping people feel seen and, and the way that I define hospitality is proving to the guests that you care. But I love the way you just boil it down to like, kindness is right. Just that human nature of interacting with someone on a bus or you’re interacting with someone across the counter, it’s like, how can you be kind?

00:14:26:14 – 00:14:29:04

Zack

How could you help them smile a little bit?

00:14:29:07 – 00:14:46:02

Abney

Yeah. And the thing is that if you really notice when you’re operating a business and you’re interacting with guests, they say things all the time that give you an opportunity to get to know them a little bit better, to make them feel a little more special. You know, I’m picking up pasta for my kids. Oh my gosh, how many kids do you have?

00:14:46:08 – 00:14:57:24

Abney

You know, and it leads this whole conversation. And then the guest leaves feeling appreciated. The hear point heard and understood. And they’ll want to come back.

00:14:58:01 – 00:15:19:13

Zack

Amen. I love that I mean, I love the direction of like the detail and the authenticity that we’re talking about here because you’re someone where, yes, you use technology and yes, you’re all about in talking to you about using the technology and having that data. I think it’s so important, but it’s about the human connection. And we always say, don’t let the tech get in the way.

00:15:19:14 – 00:15:20:16

Zack

The hospitality right?

00:15:20:19 – 00:15:29:24

Abney

I mean, I really believe at the end of the day, I think it’s important. The food tastes good. I think the spaces are pretty and that you’re really kind. Everybody that walks in the door.

00:15:30:01 – 00:15:40:06

Zack

Amen. Bam. But there we go. There’s the title of the next book for, by Abney Harbor. Okay, so who’s someone that deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry, who’s someone that we should be following?

00:15:40:08 – 00:16:01:20

Abney

I’m going to give my sincerest shout out to my husband, James Soprano, which you already pat on here, but I got to give him the props for Sue Cray and what he has done for that brand. I mean, it’s just it it’s an amazing brand and the future’s so bright, and it’s just been an absolute pleasure and an honor to be a part of the journey with him on that.

00:16:01:20 – 00:16:09:03

Abney

So I just kind of watch out world that brands come and and I’m so happy for him and all he’s done, and it’s.

00:16:09:03 – 00:16:23:07

Zack

Such a cool vibe too. I actually went there and I didn’t even know that it was his, but I went there and I was like, this is so cool. And as I was walking out, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so great. Like it is. It was it was really cool.

00:16:23:09 – 00:16:36:18

Abney

Well, and you know, the thing that’s to me so amazing about So Cray is, is that like, I remember when it was founded and I was in New Orleans and I was driving, I saw it and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so beautiful. I have to go in there. I want to be a part of this.

00:16:36:20 – 00:17:07:03

Abney

And then flash forward this many years later. And Shukri has like sustained and weathered bad business decisions, the MeToo movement losses, bankruptcy, multiple ownerships. And it’s like it’s this brand that transcends ownership. But what I am so amazed by with James is is he sees what it is, he sees what it can be, and he’s created this vision for how it can grow and how it’s a brand.

00:17:07:03 – 00:17:26:16

Abney

It deserves to be shared and with everyone. And he’s got a vision for it and he’s executing on it. And it’s just a really special thing to be a part of. So that is a major ovation I feel is another one though, is I met at ICRA last year, James and I did. We were introduced to Dave Cleary.

00:17:26:18 – 00:17:30:07

Abney

He has the post as chicken in Colorado.

00:17:30:08 – 00:17:31:07

Zack

Yeah, yeah.

00:17:31:09 – 00:17:54:13

Abney

And he has some other restaurants. And I love the guy. And the reason I love the guy is because I feel like he embodies so much of everything we’ve just talked about on this podcast. He loves in Colorado, but he loves have a place in New Orleans. He has a massive appreciation for the food culture in New Orleans, but he went to CIA and he is a tremendous chef.

00:17:54:13 – 00:18:15:08

Abney

Like he’s so talented. But oftentimes when you find a chef does that talented who’s also a great restaurant tour, it’s tough. Like, I’m a terrible operator. I am so bad, I’m the worst. That’s where James is like, stay clean. Me, I’ll take over operations. I’m so because I don’t ever want to do the same thing twice. I want to do it differently every time.

00:18:15:08 – 00:18:40:21

Abney

And that’s terrible for our operations. But but Dave has, you know, when we met him, he’s done just what I feel like is important, right? Like he has basically a fine dining offering with fried chicken. Right. But it’s absolutely a fine dining offering. By that I mean like the attention to detail with the ingredients. Like they have a gluten free chicken sandwich where they use, like, I think, almond flour.

00:18:40:21 – 00:19:03:21

Abney

I be having I don’t know exactly which flour they use, but they do the waffles with like a pumpkin seed butter maple sirup. And I actually haven’t been to the post, but I’ve just learned about it through him. And then I’ve like studied it online because it looks so good, but they have multiple locations. But then he has a, seafood restaurant in downtown Denver that we went this summer called Jax and it was incredible.

00:19:04:00 – 00:19:22:13

Abney

Like the wine list was wonderful. The food was beautiful and as delicious as it was beautiful and it had such a vibe, it was sort of that thing where you just wanted to sit and linger and not leave. And that’s sort of what I like truly value. And I think he’s really talented and I think that he’s doing some great things now.

00:19:22:13 – 00:19:29:20

Zack

That’s awesome. I love those shout outs. And now how can people find and follow you Abney and pre map. Right.

00:19:29:22 – 00:19:43:05

Abney

So we’re on Instagram and TikTok and it’s at prima Parade.com. Our website is print. And then I’m sorry we’re up at Prima Pray on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and then our website’s premiere Pro guide.

00:19:43:05 – 00:19:54:19

Zack

Com awesome. Well Abney for bringing us from the data cloud all the way down to the meringue cloud. Today’s ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us. I give it ovation. Always fun to hang out.

00:19:54:21 – 00:19:57:19

Abney

Thank you so much for that.

00:19:57:21 – 00:20:20:09

Zack

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We’re all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by ovation, a two question, SMS based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you’d like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovation Ofcom.