Eric Robison is a developer and multi-unit owner at Rock N’ Roll Sushi. Since joining the brand when it had just 16 locations, Eric has played a key role in its expansion to over 75 units. He brings a guest-first mindset and a passion for creating high-energy, memorable dining experiences.

Rebuilding Guest Experience After Covid (01:07)

Eric reflects on how Covid disrupted the guest experience across the industry. Coming out of that period, his team realized they needed to rebuild joy and connection in their dining rooms.

“The guest experience fell apart during Covid… we’ve got to start giving people a reason to come out of the house again.”

Retention Over Acquisition (02:27)

For Rock N’ Roll Sushi, retaining loyal guests is more valuable than constant acquisition. Third-party delivery is helpful, but the goal is to create in-person dining experiences that are worth returning to.

“You can’t grow a business if you’re not retaining the guest.”

Breaking the Sushi Rules (03:11)

The brand intentionally defies traditional sushi expectations with loud music, bold menu items, and energetic service.

“We’re bringing vibrant atmospheres and really creating an experience where you can say, wow, that was a fun time.”

Infusing Brand Into Every Touchpoint (04:13)

From hiring to training, Eric emphasizes aligning every team member with the brand’s personality to ensure a consistent guest experience.

“We are sushi amplified. We are dining out loud.”

Using Guest Feedback to Make Real Changes (08:05)

With Ovation, Eric’s team uncovered recurring issues they wouldn’t have otherwise caught. One example: guest confusion over portion sizes led to a menu revamp.

“If we’re not acing it to the guest’s expectation, we’re the problem.”

Service Recovery as a Culture (10:40)

Eric trains his team to embrace guest feedback and see it as coaching, not criticism. They focus on turning negative experiences into long-term loyalty.

“We want to write that great final chapter with the guest and get them loyal to our brand.”

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocknrollsushi/

https://www.rocknrollsushi.com

https://www.instagram.com/rocknrollsushi/

Transcript

00:00:00:06 – 00:00:23:20

Zack Oates

Welcome to another edition of Give Innovation the Restaurant Guest Experience podcast. I’m your host, Zach Oates, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five star guest experience. This podcast is powered by ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. It gets you insights you need to improve without an annoying survey for your guests.

00:00:23:21 – 00:00:46:03

Zack Oates

Learn more at Ovation up.com. And today we have someone who has really seen an incredible growth. He’s the developer and owner of seven units for Rock and Roll Sushi. He has been there from 16 units to now at 75 units. He’s been in it. He’s been around it. He’s been enjoying it. Eric Robinson, welcome to the show, man.

00:00:46:03 – 00:00:46:10

Zack Oates

How are you?

00:00:46:11 – 00:00:52:09

Eric Robison

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we’re doing great. Things are going good or and we’re enjoying it. And I’m excited to be here today.

00:00:52:14 – 00:01:07:05

Zack Oates

Well, I’m really excited. And as you have seen this journey really from the inside, what are some lessons that you would have shared with Rock and roll Sushi and yourself at 16 units, now that you all are at 75 units?

00:01:07:07 – 00:01:23:12

Eric Robison

Yeah, I mean, we’ve just been like, as you grow and things change, you see what works for you that sometimes you kind of lose sight of things too. I think one thing that really like, put it in perspective for us was coming out of Covid. It was obviously one of the hardest things I think anybody’s been through in the restaurant industry.

00:01:23:14 – 00:01:44:01

Eric Robison

And going through that and being able to say, like, man, the guest experience fell apart during Covid, the guests were on edge, the our staff was on edge and we kind of lost sight of how important was almost became in a mindset of we’re being attacked, they’re being attacked, everyone’s under attack. And like, how do we bring that back?

00:01:44:01 – 00:02:00:24

Eric Robison

Once we got out of that was immense. Something’s changed in our service and we stopped. I think you just kind of you’re battle hardened in a way, you know? Well, we’ve got to get back to great guest experiences. We’ve got to start giving people a reason to come out of the house again. They come back into our restaurant.

00:02:00:24 – 00:02:01:15

Zack Oates

Yeah.

00:02:01:17 – 00:02:14:06

Eric Robison

And to really build that experience and say, what do we what does the experience look like now? How do we make it an enjoyable time outside the house again? So that’s been a huge focus for us.

00:02:14:08 – 00:02:27:07

Zack Oates

And as you looking at this and as you’re thinking about how do you get people back in and what are you guys focused on? What is basically more important the the retention or the net new?

00:02:27:09 – 00:02:44:09

Eric Robison

Yeah, I mean, for sure is the retention, because you can’t grow a business if you’re not retaining the guest. And what we’ve seen is we do a lot of third party deliveries, DoorDash, Uber Eats, and we’re thankful for that business. But it’s not the way that I see the brands growth from an experience that we want to provide.

00:02:44:09 – 00:03:00:13

Eric Robison

We want people to be excited about dining out, excited about sushi. There’s a lot of things that you can make at home. You can make a sandwich at home, a sushi at home is is a difficult thing to pull off so we can deliver it. But there’s so much better if you just come in and let us create that experience for you in the restaurant.

00:03:00:15 – 00:03:11:22

Eric Robison

So we’re trying to do everything we can to bring the guests back out of the house and bring the guests to a fun night out, make it a good date night experience or a good office lunch meeting.

00:03:11:24 – 00:03:26:09

Zack Oates

And rock and roll sushi. You guys obviously have a really strong brand. It’s a loud brand. It’s one that you look at it and it’s not like your neighborhood sushi shop. Tell me a little bit about the vibe of rock and roll. Yeah, I mean, we’re kind.

00:03:26:09 – 00:03:44:18

Eric Robison

Of breaking the rules of what your traditional sushi place should be or what it could be. So we’re bringing it out. You know, we have music videos playing and we got the music a little louder. We’re trying to bring vibrant atmospheres and really create an experience where you can say, wow, that was a fun time to go out for dinner and even all the way down to the food.

00:03:44:23 – 00:03:58:15

Eric Robison

Is the food fun? And we’re doing a lot of this innovative things with bringing that experience together. We have unusual rolls with strawberries on top and avocados and stuff that you wouldn’t traditionally see at a standard sushi restaurant.

00:03:58:17 – 00:04:13:10

Zack Oates

And the brand too. I mean, like you look at the brand and you’re like, this is like a fun place with your staff and creating this brand. It goes beyond just a logo and marketing. You really got to infuse that into your people. How do you do that?

00:04:13:12 – 00:04:34:03

Eric Robison

Well, I think it’s, you know, it starts with who you hire. And then definitely how you train, spending the time to find the right people that are going to help you build a memorable experience. It’s not just, you know, place to order get the food is, hey, we are Sushi Amplify. We are dining out loud. And so we want to bring that from starting with our servers all the way to our food.

00:04:34:05 – 00:04:38:07

Eric Robison

What is that experience you get when you come out, and how do we fulfill that bronze?

00:04:38:09 – 00:04:53:23

Zack Oates

Yeah, I think that’s so awesome because we talk about this all the time, about how the guest and the employee experience are inseparably connected. You have to connect it to. But when you look at the guest experience, what do you think some of the most important aspects of guest experience nowadays are?

00:04:54:00 – 00:05:10:19

Eric Robison

Yeah, I think so. What we have to remember right out the gate is when people come out to dine with you, the food makes us happy, like food gives us joy. Your expectation is when someone comes out is like, I want to be happy. And they kind of put the burden on you guys. Will you make me happy?

00:05:10:19 – 00:05:30:08

Eric Robison

Can you satisfy my needs? And so you get that line of like, this was my intention and if you don’t hit my happiness, I can go sad real fast. And so like, how are you going to solve for that? But really just letting that be the first thing you know is like, they’re coming here to be happy. They’re coming here to enjoy their experience dining out.

00:05:30:10 – 00:05:49:21

Eric Robison

So give them that experience. Give them I mean, everyone’s got a finite amount of money. Where am I going to spend my paycheck? Who am I going to give my money to? And what are you going to give me back for it? And I tell my team all the time, whether it’s the, the cocktail, like we call them rock tails, whether it’s the rock tail or it’s the sushi roll, it’s like, what are you doing?

00:05:49:21 – 00:06:09:22

Eric Robison

They’re not buying the little bit of alcohol in the glass. They’re buying that experience. They’re. They’re buying the boomerang. They’re buying like, hey, do I have something to hold and build on that experience? And do I get the chops sticks? And it’s like bringing all those experts together and saying, I’ve had a dining experience that I left feeling better than when I came in.

00:06:09:24 – 00:06:28:04

Zack Oates

I love that philosophy of just how do you leave it? Yeah, I’m an Eagle Scout and we always talk about the campground. Leave it better than you found it, right? So too is people. How do your guests leave happier than when they came in? And if that’s the mentality and if that’s the focus of every single employee, every single time that you go to crush it.

00:06:28:04 – 00:06:42:04

Zack Oates

Because guess what happens, Eric, when you go to a restaurant and you have a bad experience with a server, you leave that restaurant and you say, oh man, Jim was really rude. No, you say that restaurant has bad service.

00:06:42:06 – 00:06:42:19

Eric Robison

That’s right.

00:06:42:24 – 00:06:46:05

Zack Oates

And so I think it’s so critical that we remember that.

00:06:46:07 – 00:07:04:08

Eric Robison

Absolutely. And you’ll see that in your brain is like and even when ovation happens where there’s protecting that online appearance and like, how are you able to, you know, solve solve it when you mess up. Because we’re not perfect. We’re working with a lot of moving pieces. And everyone knows restaurants are not easy, but how do you solve for them?

00:07:04:10 – 00:07:07:04

Zack Oates

And by the way, how has ovation been helpful for you?

00:07:07:06 – 00:07:29:07

Eric Robison

Man, it’s given us so much power to really see what are the guests thinking, what are they feeling? And then just being able to communicate with the guests. It’s just like, wow, that’s so insightful. That’s like you have theories and you have thoughts. But it’s like, now we know. We know what the guest says and we know how to get in contact with them.

00:07:29:07 – 00:07:54:19

Eric Robison

When they left us a Google review, we would try to reach out, but there’s almost no response. Like you could say, please just let me know. I want to talk to you like Ghost Ghost Town. I think too, because Google is such a public platform. You know, it’s like, well, I don’t really want to just be out. There was one thing to go leave the one star review, but how do you, you also have an open discussion on that platform.

00:07:54:21 – 00:07:57:04

Eric Robison

And then ovation has brought that together.

00:07:57:06 – 00:08:05:12

Zack Oates

And is there anything that you’ve been able to change operationally, anything that you learned when, from using ovation from hearing from your guests?

00:08:05:14 – 00:08:24:16

Eric Robison

No, absolutely. I think one of the biggest things was realizing something that we weren’t doing right. You know, like we surely were, we think were executing the menu item. Why are they complaining about this one menu item all the time? Like, we’ve got to change something on that. And we were saying like there was a, for us specifically fried rice.

00:08:24:18 – 00:08:47:20

Eric Robison

And it was expected like some certain industry standards, like a chicken fried rice is a dinner sized portion. But for us it was just a side. And so we say like, man, people aren’t getting that. This is a side. Even though because the industry standard says this is an entree and we’re like, we’re letting people down. Even though the price said side, the expectation was still on trade.

00:08:48:00 – 00:09:05:17

Eric Robison

So we’ve got to solve for that. And that’s something we’re like, we didn’t know that one particular thing was letting so many guests down. We’re like, why is everyone complaining about this one little thing? But it gave us insight. So we can take that information and then let’s change it. If we’re not acing it to the guests expectation, we’re the problem.

00:09:05:19 – 00:09:13:19

Eric Robison

We can’t say is the guests fault. Hey, it says, you know, so we’re working through that and say like, what can we do? We want to wow in this broadcast not doing it.

00:09:13:21 – 00:09:37:00

Zack Oates

Things like that, where it’s like the guest has these feelings, they have these thoughts. But what happens historically is if you’re waiting for an online review, you’re not going to get an accurate representation. And that complaint is going to seem like a one off. But when you can get a lot of guests to give you a little bit of information, it paints a much more accurate picture about what’s actually happening in the restaurants.

00:09:37:02 – 00:09:57:09

Zack Oates

Well, I appreciate that and glad that you’re seeing value with ovation. That is my biggest motivation in the world, is just driving value and hoping that people can see that value. But as I always say, ovation isn’t to make bad restaurants good. It’s to make great restaurants better. Absolutely. The great restaurants. They want to create that guest experience.

00:09:57:09 – 00:10:13:18

Zack Oates

They have that guest first mentality. They’re not afraid of hearing what their guests are saying and helping that guest feel heard. And so kudos to you and thank you for doing that. So besides ovation, any other tactics that you would use to improve the guest experience?

00:10:13:20 – 00:10:40:16

Eric Robison

Yeah. So when we use some leadership reading with our team and we always looking for a good thing to help us inspire ourselves and renew our energy each day. And then recently we did a retreat right at the same time that we launched ovation and just kind of really work together with setting the table with Amy Myers. And we started like really implementing those five A’s awareness, acknowledgment, apology, action and additional generosity to migrate that in a merge that in with our ovation.

00:10:40:16 – 00:10:57:24

Eric Robison

Like, how do we not just hear what the guest is saying, but how do we answer what the guest is saying? How do we make changes and let the guests know that we’re carrying on about this? This is not just okay, we don’t want to once for you, of course not. Vote. How do we earn five stars? And how do we take those sad guests and turn them into happy guests?

00:10:57:24 – 00:11:04:21

Eric Robison

And how do we write that great final chapter with the guests and get them loyal to our brand because we want to be loyal to our guests?

00:11:04:23 – 00:11:34:04

Zack Oates

I love that because at the end of the day, when you look at the power of a recovered guest, when when you do that proper service recovery, our data shows that that guest who is mad and you recover them is worth 24 times the value of the average guest. And this is we followed 150,000 customers over 18 months to see their patterns of how they shop and where they go to eat, and how often they eat there.

00:11:34:04 – 00:11:55:08

Zack Oates

And what is it based on if they’re mad or if they’re happy or if they’re not. And so really powerful data that shows. I completely agree with you, Eric, about what you said earlier. It’s great to bring in new guests, but there’s a lot of things that you can do to retain the guests that you have, and that is so much more valuable.

00:11:55:11 – 00:12:20:23

Zack Oates

That’s way easier to do. And not only that, but those are the guests that are going to go out and be your advocates for bringing in the new customers. And so you could focus all you want on marketing. But when you focus a lot and when you really focus on the guest experience and that retention and recovery that naturally produces net new customers coming in because they bring their friends, because they become loyal raving fans.

00:12:21:00 – 00:12:22:19

Eric Robison

Absolutely. Yeah, for sure.

00:12:22:21 – 00:12:34:11

Zack Oates

As we look to what’s next, rock n’ Roll Sushi, how do you think about the future of the brand? What do you think are some of the main focuses that, restaurants should be looking at nowadays?

00:12:34:13 – 00:12:54:09

Eric Robison

I think just being open and honest with yourself about, hey, sometimes it’s hard. It’s always hard to accept criticism. Right. And then when you have a platform like ovation, I think you’ve got to be very mindful about how you want to receive this information and be like, look, it’s not criticism. This is coaching from your guest and saying, we want to do more business with you.

00:12:54:09 – 00:13:11:23

Eric Robison

We’ve taken the time to tell you what would make us do more business with you. So listen to him and said, oh wow, I do care about my business succeeding. I need to know what you’re saying, and I need to know before you answer with your wallet, because when the sales have already started going down, then you use too late.

00:13:11:23 – 00:13:29:08

Eric Robison

You messed up and digging out of that hole, man, I don’t know if it seems like it’s harder than ever. You get that guest back. It’s it’s so difficult. They have a lot of options open to the feedback. I would say you’re going to get the feedback. And I tell people when they start up with ovation, I’m like, you’re going to get a lot of feedback.

00:13:29:08 – 00:13:38:02

Eric Robison

You can’t sit there and get negative in your head. It’s like, this is coaching. This is what you’re asking for. And got to be so thankful that you’re getting that information.

00:13:38:04 – 00:13:55:03

Zack Oates

I love the fact that you just use the word thankful because this feedback really is a gift, and if you treat it that way, it’s going to help you and your business and your team and your brand just get better. So love that. Eric. Where can people go to find and follow you and rock and roll sushi?

00:13:55:05 – 00:14:10:03

Eric Robison

You can follow us on. We have a one Instagram page or Facebook page for the whole brand, and then we have local ones in your town. If there’s that. We always know what local events a lot of our locations are doing, like karaoke and some other music, bingo and some other things like that are starting to go on locally.

00:14:10:05 – 00:14:28:18

Eric Robison

But follow the brand on our sushi on Instagram and Facebook. You can follow me. I’m not really great with content. I got a brand new baby at home and we’re just like, we’re like, struggling or we’re not sleeping. I about had a great time, but yeah, I’m out there on on some social media.

00:14:28:23 – 00:14:46:07

Zack Oates

I know Eric was rocking the Red bull right before the podcast. I’m like, I get it, I’ve been there with the newborn every hour feels like a day when you’re on a few hours of sleep. So I really appreciate you coming on, Eric, and for being a rock star with guest experience, today’s ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us.

00:14:46:07 – 00:14:47:09

Zack Oates

I give an ovation.

00:14:47:11 – 00:14:50:16

Eric Robison

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us today.

00:14:50:16 – 00:15:11:23

Zack Oates

If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We’re all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by ovation, a two question, SMS based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you’d like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovation up.com.