Melissa Doolin-Koehne, Founder and Principal of Elevate Four, joins Zack Oates to share lessons from a lifetime in the restaurant industry. With a background rooted in leadership, data, and operations, she brings a clear perspective on what truly drives guest experience and long-term success.

Clarity Drives Everything (07:15)

“Clarity is king.”

Melissa emphasizes that both restaurant and tech brands often overcomplicate their value. The most successful companies clearly define what problem they solve and consistently deliver on that promise.

Listening Creates Better Partnerships (08:10)

“Those that are really trying to understand the pain points… you’re seeing that play off really well.”

For tech companies, success comes from acting as true partners. That starts with listening, understanding operator challenges, and building solutions that directly address real needs.

Culture Is the Foundation (09:15)

“If you take care of your employees, they’re taking care of your customer.”

Melissa highlights culture as one of the most overlooked yet easiest areas to improve. Strong internal culture directly translates into better guest experiences.

The Power of the General Manager (10:05)

“The most important role in an entire restaurant brand is that general manager.”

In a challenging economic environment, Melissa points to one clear priority. Investing in great general managers delivers the highest return across retention, performance, and guest satisfaction.

Rethinking Leadership Support (12:10)

“We are here to serve and support them.”

Using examples like Chick-fil-A and Texas Roadhouse, Melissa explains how top brands treat operators like owners. Instead of top-down control, they build systems that empower leaders on the ground.

This conversation reinforces a simple idea. The industry does not need more complexity. It needs stronger fundamentals, clearer thinking, and a deeper investment in people at every level.

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissa-doolin-koehne/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/elevate4/about/

Transcript

00:00:00:12 – 00:00:25:02

Zack Oates

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience podcast. I’m your host Zack Oates and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five star guest experience. This podcast is powered by ovation, the AI feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what’s actually happening in your restaurants and exactly how to improve while driving revenue.

00:00:25:05 – 00:00:52:16

Zack Oates

Learn more at ovation up.com. And today we have Melissa Doolin-Koehne. She has a brain of diamonds and a heart of gold, and she is involved in so many different things around the industry. From being the founder and principal of Elevate, for which I’m excited to, to have her chat a little bit more about. But she’s also the chairman of the board of the Texas Restaurant Association Foundation, where we recently got to hang out in Texas and excited to do so again.

00:00:52:18 – 00:01:19:14

Zack Oates

And she’s on the board and advising so many different amazing restaurants and tech companies. But Melissa was actually born into the restaurant industry. I mean, she has been in this space, especially as a tech vendor, maybe more longer than any other tech person in this industry because her parents watch you to what you tell the story. Melissa, why have you, like, been born with this spoon in your mouth?

00:01:19:14 – 00:01:22:11

Zack Oates

Just getting fed the restaurant industry?

00:01:22:17 – 00:01:25:20

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Well, Zach, it’s amazing how much I’ve done at the age of 21.

00:01:25:21 – 00:01:34:18

Zack Oates

I know, good for you. Look, when you get to be my age, Melissa, it becomes less impressive every year. But, at your age, yes. It’s amazing.

00:01:34:20 – 00:01:55:12

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

I think it might be a little bit older than you, but I appreciate it. And, Zach, thank you so much for having me. I love all that you do. I think you are such a breath of fresh air, and you care so much about this industry and the people in it, and I just have always been very fond of you for all that you do for the industry.

00:01:55:12 – 00:02:13:18

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

And you’re right. You and I just got to hang out because you just joined the board of the Texas Restaurant Association. So thrilled to have you be a part of it. But a little bit about my background. You’re absolutely right. I was born with, like, a fork and knife and a spoon in my mouth.

00:02:13:20 – 00:02:15:01

Zack Oates

00:02:15:03 – 00:02:43:05

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

I was, lucky enough to be. Both of my parents were general managers at Steak and Ale back in the day. So the old school steak and ale, Norman Brinker, who is a titan in our industry. If anybody’s done any research, I appreciate if any of you younger people in this in this industry do a little bit of eye research on Norman Brinker, you’ll find that this man really did found the idea of casual dining.

00:02:43:05 – 00:03:03:16

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

So many great leaders came out of the ideals that Norman Brinker brought to the table, and he was incredible at finding leadership. And so my mom was the first female general manager of a steak and ale. My dad grew up in the steak in the old days. Later on, he went to go run T.G.I. Fridays and Buca de Beppo and Little Madeleine.

00:03:03:18 – 00:03:30:24

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

He took TGI Fridays from just a couple hundred restaurants to almost 1000 internationally as well. So he’s got a great story of back in the heyday, really moving TGI Fridays to be that place that we all hung out back in the day. And then my mom founded a little company called People Report that turned into Blackbox Intelligence. I was lucky to work with her and, my dad for almost 20 years and building out that organization.

00:03:30:24 – 00:03:55:09

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

So it’s been a thrill of a lifetime to be able to work with my family and build something that I was really proud of, not only from an organization standpoint, but we have been, a family that has always given back ourselves and really built organizations and leaders with that in mind.

00:03:55:11 – 00:04:13:18

Zack Oates

And I think that just right to show the fact that you’ve built that trust and the fact that Black Box is still around, I think is a testament to the fact that you’re working to solve real problems with real people, and you’ve really continue that into the next phase of your career. So talk to us a little bit about about elevate for.

00:04:13:20 – 00:04:33:09

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Yes. So elevate four was born a couple of years ago. Believe it or not I let Black Box intelligence. And I’m going to be really honest with you, Zach. I didn’t have a game plan. I was going to take the summer off and really figure it out. And then the phone started ringing and I started to gain some clients, that have become really great friends.

00:04:33:11 – 00:05:06:16

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

And I named the company elevate for because I am very, very passionate about elevating people, principles and profits in our industry. As you can probably tell by my passion, and you’ve known me for a long time, this industry means so much to me. We’re the largest industry outside of the U.S. government. I get really excited about the impact that we as an industry can make on people’s lives, and that comes through the cultures we build through the technology and through the leadership that we display and the service that we provide.

00:05:06:16 – 00:05:30:06

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

So I am so excited to have built my own company and doing that. And I do everything from working with restaurant tours to tech companies on helping them elevate their. For part, I should have said this. The four part is a little bit of a play, so it’s elevating for all of those things, but it’s also a nod to my four daughters.

00:05:30:10 – 00:05:47:20

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Oh, Zach, you and I had this many conversations about being working parents, but I have four amazing daughters. And so it was a little bit of a play on word to be able to do a nod to what I would like to do in this industry, as well as a little bit to my daughters.

00:05:47:22 – 00:06:04:13

Zack Oates

And I love that. And because at the end of the day, this is the thing I always remind people, yes, I want to help everyone in this industry, and I want to build value and I want to do good. But at the end of the day, this is all like it’s all monopoly. And what really matters are the relationships that we gain along the way.

00:06:04:18 – 00:06:23:11

Zack Oates

And it’s our family and it’s our friends, and it’s the lifelong friends that I’ve gained in this industry. It’s like, that’s incredible to me. And those are the things that matter. That’s what it means to win. And building value along the way, I think is critical, but I think it’s a oftentimes the relationships are looked at as a byproduct of that.

00:06:23:13 – 00:06:38:19

Zack Oates

I look at it as the meaning of it and why we do it. I think that’s so critical. I love I think that’s why we gel so much is because it’s like, I mean, even when we were at competing companies, like we were still friends because it’s like, yeah, okay, great. They’re going to go with you. They’re going to go with us.

00:06:38:19 – 00:06:56:00

Zack Oates

But at the end of the day, it’s like, I think you’re a great person and I love what you stand for. And I think that makes a big difference. And so one of the questions I have is as you start to work with these tech companies in these restaurants, let’s do two questions. So with tech companies and with restaurants separately, what do you say to them?

00:06:56:00 – 00:07:07:03

Zack Oates

What are some low hanging fruit that you see that they should do to improve the experience of their customers? For the tech company, it’s going to be the restaurants. For the restaurants, it’s going to be the guest.

00:07:07:05 – 00:07:28:22

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Yes. Well, I think, you know, it’s so interesting. I think I go back to the basics here and I know that is so boring, but I think people are reinventing the basics. But clarity is king. And that is from a standpoint of understanding the clarity of your value proposition of your brand, whether that be a restaurant brand or a technology brand.

00:07:28:22 – 00:07:51:10

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Right. What is the value that you bring to the table, and what are you solving for, whether it’s convenience or an incredible night out with your family? Or is it around the technology that you’re bringing to make it easier and better for employees and your customers? So I always go back to that clarity piece and the really understanding it.

00:07:51:12 – 00:08:25:01

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

I think there’s so many technology companies out there right now and there’s so much change happening. And so it’s fascinating to see the companies that are diving in and really, really trying to partner with the industry. And a lot of that is listening. So I think those that are really trying to understand the pain points really under trying to understand where opportunity lies and working as a true partner, you’re seeing that play off really, really well.

00:08:25:01 – 00:08:57:19

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

And and Zach, I think you’ve done a great job with that. And I think you’re totally right. I think relationships are really matter in this industry. More than ever. I mean, when you have hundreds and hundreds of tech companies pitching you, I was just having this conversation with a good friend who’s a CFO, and he said, you know, if I could count how many emails I get and I mean, you can send emails all day long, but if you’re not providing value and people don’t understand it and there’s no clarity around it, then you’re not going to build relationships there that really, really matter.

00:08:57:21 – 00:09:11:01

Zack Oates

I love that, and I think that makes so much sense. And so as you’re thinking about these restaurants, what are some mistakes that you’ve seen in your career about like restaurants focusing on the wrong thing and what should they be focusing on?

00:09:11:03 – 00:09:24:23

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Well, I think the probably the biggest thing that I have seen that is so easy to change is culture and taking care of your employees. If you take care of your employees, they’re taking care of your customer.

00:09:24:23 – 00:09:42:21

Zack Oates

How do you do that, though, when like margins are just getting compressed here? Melissa, we’re dying out here. We can’t take this anymore. But all of my hard costs have gone up and now labor is even going up. Like, how do I take care of my people when my margin is just getting crammed on both sides?

00:09:42:23 – 00:10:12:15

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

I feel so much for operators today because I think it is harder and harder to operate than ever before. So I think there’s one place where I think you can get the biggest bang for your buck that is super, super important to focus on when things get really crazy and that is your general manager. When you start to think about where you can invest, that is going to be the biggest ROI in your business.

00:10:12:17 – 00:10:34:08

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

The thing that makes the biggest difference on customers coming back or not, it is having an exceptional general manager and keeping exceptional general managers because they can be the thing that helps you on your turnover with your hourly employees. They can also be the solution providers in that tight market that know how to handle it and what to do there.

00:10:34:08 – 00:10:57:19

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

So I always go back to where I think the most important role in an entire restaurant brand is that general manager. And a lot of times we tend to forget about them and sometimes we dump on them. Yeah, dump on them and we forget that they’re running multi-million dollar concepts. A lot of times like these are very hard to to run.

00:10:57:19 – 00:11:24:14

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

So let’s pour as much as we can into giving them the tools they need, the resources they need, and then really listening to them and understanding what is successful and not. And I always say this, we have done not a great job of investing in development of general managers, and I think there’s a great opportunity for us to do more and more in that area.

00:11:24:16 – 00:11:34:12

Zack Oates

Do you have any advice of people who have done a good job investing in the gems and what they’ve done, and you don’t have to name any, like specific names, but just like more of the tactics?

00:11:34:14 – 00:12:04:21

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Well, I think you start to see some incredible restaurant brands, like, I mean, these are no secret ones. Everybody knows who they are because the results are shown. But look at Texas Roadhouse, look at Chick-Fil-A listing full service and, quick service, right? Like both of them pay their managers are really, really well. Both of them treat their managers like owners, like they are owning that restaurant that is their domain, and they’re there to support them.

00:12:04:23 – 00:12:37:21

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

I can remember the first time I visited Chick-Fil-A offices, and I have been working in this industry forever, and this first time I hear their corporate team talking about their operating partners being the ones that they’re there to support, we are here to serve and support them. It’s not the opposite. And wow, like that was just game changing for me in a thought process, because a lot of times it’s corporate talking down to the managers and they look at it as bottom up, like our general managers.

00:12:37:21 – 00:12:42:24

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Our operating partners are telling us everything that we need to do up here. That’s incredible.

00:12:43:01 – 00:13:07:03

Zack Oates

And it’s so easy to get that turned around because you look at especially the franchisee, franchise or relationship, there’s such contention there because, oh, you’re never doing enough for me versus it’s like, oh man, you’re a bunch of complains. And to flip that around and to have that love there and to have that like that real servant leader attitude I think is so powerful.

00:13:07:05 – 00:13:25:24

Zack Oates

And I’ve seen it in amazing brands, boots on the ground, like I look at Dave’s Hot Chicken and I talk with Bill Phelps and one of the franchisees. He was telling me when the franchisees came up to him and said, Bill, you lied to me. And he was like, whoa, that’s like coming in hot, man. He’s like, what do you mean I lied to you?

00:13:26:00 – 00:13:50:24

Zack Oates

He goes, you told me this is going to be a good investment. And he’s like, yeah, I did. And he goes, you lied. This is an amazing investment. And it was just so cool to see that connection and that gratitude for really believing that they have their backs. And I think that those brands shine through because the franchisees, they want to work with them, they want to figure it out.

00:13:50:24 – 00:14:10:13

Zack Oates

They know that they’ve got their back. And I think that’s so powerful. And and I know that you work with so many different brands right now, and I know we don’t have time to like, shout them all out. But one of them that I did want to talk about and make sure that was on people’s radars is Cafe momentum, which sounds super cool.

00:14:10:14 – 00:14:12:19

Zack Oates

Tell us about Cafe Momentum.

00:14:12:21 – 00:14:42:02

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Yeah. So Cafe Momentum is a restaurant that was started here in Dallas, Texas, where I live, and a incredible chef who just got named as a James Beard Award nominee for humanitarian of the year. Seems Chad Houser. He started this restaurant in Dallas. He’s now, has restaurants and flagships in Atlanta, Pittsburgh and Denver. And these restaurants are fine dining restaurants.

00:14:42:02 – 00:15:12:09

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

They’re beautiful restaurants. If you have one in your city or you’re traveling to that city. I highly encourage you to try out. The food is fantastic, but what makes it even more special is that all of the employees that Chad and the team hire are all second chance youth. So these are all kids. They’re first offenders that he takes in, and they do a full 18 month program where they learn the skills of back in the house in front of the house, but they also learn life skills.

00:15:12:11 – 00:15:34:18

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

And the recidivism rate for these kids are incredible. These kids do not go back into the system. They are given purpose. They are given a chance. And it’s amazing to see these kids flourish. And so it’s been a lot of fun to see Chad grow this. And now that it’s growing more, nationally, it’s really, really exciting to see.

00:15:34:18 – 00:15:40:04

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

And so I’m really proud to be on the board and support them as they grow even more.

00:15:40:06 – 00:16:01:17

Zack Oates

And what an amazing concept of doing good while doing well. Right. And I think that the fact that they can create food that’s good enough to be a nominee and James Beard nominee and be helping people out, I look at that and I’m just like, that’s where it’s at, right? That is that is the best of both worlds.

00:16:01:17 – 00:16:25:11

Zack Oates

And really looking at people first and not just doing it as a result of tax breaks, but doing it like foundationally to give people a second chance. And that recidivism rate, that is one of the things that I feel like we are failing people who enter into our legal system and when you have this opportunity to believe in them, I think that’s what it comes out of.

00:16:25:11 – 00:16:52:05

Zack Oates

It’s a it’s a cycle that just sucks them back in because there’s so little hope that they can get out because so few people do it. And so that’s incredible. So anyway, I just wanted to make sure that was on everyone’s radar to check out Cafe Momentum. Love that concept. Now as we’re wrapping up here, Melissa, obviously you know everyone in the industry and everyone knows you, but who is someone that we should be following?

00:16:52:05 – 00:16:55:00

Zack Oates

Who is someone that deserves an ovation?

00:16:55:02 – 00:17:15:07

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Oh my gosh, Zach, you didn’t tell me you were going to do that. There’s so many people. I have a hard time picking one person, but I think I’m going to just call this out. Although I do think that, she’s becoming somebody that everybody follows these days. And it’s really what I’m excited to work on with you for the next couple of years.

00:17:15:07 – 00:17:17:15

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

And that’s Emily Williams night from the Texas restaurant.

00:17:17:20 – 00:17:19:10

Zack Oates

Amen.

00:17:19:12 – 00:17:48:14

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

And she is an incredibly phenomenal leader, and I have learned so much from her being on her board, and seeing her leadership style and just the amazing work she has done for our industry, not just here in Texas, but nationally. I really believe she is leading the way in the way association work is done for our industry and really making an impact in a really big way.

00:17:48:14 – 00:18:00:15

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

So she is not on your radar. I highly suggest you follow her. And I suggest that you support your state association as well, because they’re doing a lot of great work on behalf of all of us.

00:18:00:15 – 00:18:15:15

Zack Oates

And especially Texas. I mean, I see what Texas is doing. And I mean, they are like the amount of work that Texas that the Tra is doing for restaurants in Texas is mind blowing. So anyway, so check that out.

00:18:15:17 – 00:18:37:08

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Just real quick. Is that before I joined Blackbox Intelligence, I worked for the National Restaurant Association. And so I got involved because I fell in love with the foundation work. So we have a pro start school, the career program. I highly encourage like get involved in your state association, find these students because these are the next generation. These should be the students that you’re employing.

00:18:37:10 – 00:18:56:24

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

But I think a lot of people don’t know about the great work that happens there because we’re so busy and going. But I encourage you guys to all look at it because it really is incredible foundation for our industry that we desperately need from a policy standpoint to an education standpoint, etc..

00:18:57:05 – 00:19:08:02

Zack Oates

I love that, and I think that they pick someone so well to be at the helm of that. Melissa. So a couple questions. Where do people go if they want to get involved with a Texas restaurant foundation?

00:19:08:04 – 00:19:30:20

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Yeah, well, in this world you can go to ChatGPT. And they ask a question and and you got it, but it’s the website and you can search Texas Restaurant Association, the foundation part is a whole separate entity. And you can go on the website and see where the foundation work is done. There’s a ton of ways to get involved.

00:19:30:20 – 00:19:34:19

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

And then you can reach out to Zach, or I will lead you to the right places where I.

00:19:34:20 – 00:19:38:11

Zack Oates

Will, that we will. And how do people find and follow you? Melissa.

00:19:38:13 – 00:20:01:23

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

You can find me on LinkedIn. And Melissa, do Link Haney and I would love to see it. My email is easy. Melissa dot dueling caney@gmail.com. And it’s dot Lin co H and E. So Zach, thank you so much. You’re such an amazing person and I just love the energy put into all the things you do. And I’m so proud to be your friend.

00:20:02:00 – 00:20:16:18

Zack Oates

Well thank you Melissa, and I’m so grateful for you taking some time to hang out with us and for giving us a bite of wisdom from your fork, knife and spoon that you were born with and your buffet of wisdom. Today’s ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us and give an ovation. Melissa.

00:20:16:20 – 00:20:18:04

Melissa Doolin-Koehne

Thank you, Zach.

00:20:18:06 – 00:20:40:18

Zack Oates

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We’re all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by ovation, a two question, SMS based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you’d like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovation up.com.