Kyle and Maggie Gordon, founders of Dillas Quesadillas, join Zack Oates to discuss the journey of building a restaurant brand from the ground up. What began as a bootstrapped idea after Kyle’s experience working with Raising Cane’s has grown into a multi location fast casual brand across Texas. Their approach centers on operational discipline, strong partnerships, and a relentless focus on consistency.

Learning the Restaurant Business First (01:25)

“You need to see if you’ve got ketchup in your veins.”

Before launching Dillas, Kyle spent several years working with Raising Cane’s, learning the operational side of running a restaurant. That experience helped shape the systems and discipline needed to launch their own brand. For the Gordons, real operational experience provided the foundation for everything that followed.

Bootstrapping the First Location (03:00)

“We just bootstrapped our first deal.”

The couple opened their first location in 2013 with a combination of savings, family support, and determination. Rather than chasing rapid expansion, they focused on building a brand that could sustain long term growth. Over time, that patience helped them grow to multiple locations and expand through franchising.

The Persistence Required in Restaurants (07:25)

“This game is a persistence game.”

Restaurants are rarely overnight successes. Kyle explains that the economics of the industry require patience, especially during the early years of a lease when businesses are still paying down initial investments. For operators, success often comes from staying committed long enough to reach the later years where growth and profitability accelerate.

Consistency Over Experience (15:00)

“We want people to know it’s always good and always served fast.”

Rather than competing directly with full service dining experiences, Dillas focuses on execution. Their goal is to deliver high quality food quickly and consistently. By prioritizing quality, speed, and reliability, they aim to meet guest expectations every time.

Details, Details, Details (18:05)

“When you walk into a restaurant, there’s a difference in the vibe.”

For the Gordons, the guest experience often comes down to small operational details. Cleanliness, organization, and attention to the environment signal professionalism and care. These details help build trust with guests and reinforce the brand’s commitment to quality.

Using Feedback to Improve the Brand (23:20)

“We wanted to get better at consistency of the experience.”

Guest feedback plays a major role in refining operations across locations. By analyzing thousands of surveys and responding quickly to customer concerns, the team identifies trends and improves processes. For Dillas, listening closely to guests helps maintain the consistency that defines the brand.

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-gordon-7a1ab852/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maggiemcgordon/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/dillas-quesadillas/

https://dillas.com/

Transcript

00:00:00:12 – 00:00:24:18

Zack Oates

Welcome to another edition of Give An Ovation, the Restaurant Guest Experience podcast. I’m your host, Zack Oates, and each week I chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five star guest experience. This podcast is powered by ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what’s actually happening in your restaurant and how to improve while driving revenue.

00:00:24:24 – 00:00:47:19

Zack Oates

Learn more at ovation. Up.com now. Today I am so excited because we have the owners, the founders, the Ballers of Dallas, Casey Diaz, Kyle and Maggie Gordon, who we were just talking about before this show. They are not just business partners, but at first I was like, maybe they just happen to have the last name, the same last name.

00:00:47:19 – 00:01:08:16

Zack Oates

But no, they are married and when you see them at trade shows, it is amazing to see how much respect they have for each other and how they seem like their homies, like they’re just like friends. And anyway, just really respect that. And especially Kyle, the hair game, I’m working on them and one day I’ll catch up. But yeah, you.

00:01:08:16 – 00:01:11:23

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Got to control it. You know, work this side a little bit.

00:01:12:00 – 00:01:13:03

Zack Oates

By the way, do you have to use a.

00:01:13:03 – 00:01:14:14

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Blow dryer a little dryer?

00:01:14:16 – 00:01:25:13

Zack Oates

Okay. Well, I told you I would come on with hard hitting questions, so we’ll start there. So for those who aren’t familiar with Diller’s, why don’t you tell us about the founding story and what Diller’s does?

00:01:25:15 – 00:01:47:19

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah, I love that. So started in 2013, I like to always mention that, like straight out of college. Had the idea for Dillard’s in college, but straight out of college was like really wanting to get in the restaurant business. Wanted to start Dillard’s, talk to a mentor, and he was like, no, get a job. I’m like, you need to see if you’ve got ketchup in your veins.

00:01:47:19 – 00:02:02:07

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And so, I actually got the interview with Raising Cane’s, which I was very blessed at. The perfect timing, right, to go work for Raising Cane’s. So they’re opening their second location in DFW. And I was like, awesome. Like, get me in. Wait.

00:02:02:07 – 00:02:03:05

Zack Oates

Their second?

00:02:03:11 – 00:02:13:06

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah, they only had they had like 40 at this time. Like maybe 30. Yeah. Something in that range. Oh my gosh. The second one in DFW now they got right here.

00:02:13:08 – 00:02:17:22

Zack Oates

Oh sorry. Second in DFW. Yeah okay. 30 or 40 total. Got it. Got it.

00:02:17:24 – 00:02:48:11

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah. This is like 2006 2007 center on there. So this was when Todd was like still super involved and was like at the GM meeting and everything. So a super exciting time to be there. So worked with them for seven years. And like that was my 10,000 hours plus in terms of like just learning how to operate a business, all the different things that it touches and an opportunity kind of came to either continue to grow with them or to pursue Dallas and Dallas and to Maggie.

00:02:48:11 – 00:03:08:18

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And she was pregnant. And I was like, let’s go ask your mom and dad for money. It’s not like leverage that the leverage lesson right there. You get a pregnant wife, you can always ask your in-laws for money so they were like, hey, we’ll keep you in Dallas, help you guys out. I had a little buyout. She had a little bit of money, and, like, we just bootstrapped.

00:03:08:20 – 00:03:27:23

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Our first deal was location in 2013. It was in the same parking lot as my Raising Cain. So I, like, knew a lot of the community members are out there. So there’s. So anybody out there who doesn’t know what we do like primo KSAT meals. So we’ve got like some signature. KSAT is also in French fries and a drink is that meal.

00:03:28:00 – 00:03:46:24

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And we have been growing that for 12 years now. We’ve got 11 locations. Six of them are babies, here in DFW area. And then we’ve got one franchisee with five locations. You then like East Texas and, Shreveport and has one in Ruston, Louisiana, and one.

00:03:47:01 – 00:03:49:06

Zack Oates

Oh. Got it. But I don’t know if you guys heard.

00:03:49:08 – 00:04:13:23

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Most of the origin story, the story, but I’ll say I’ll add on to what Dylan’s it. It’s really like American. It is. That’s like Dylan. That’s not the, right. Like, we take our favorite comfort foods, American flavor brisket and one that’s like, I don’t know, like a buffalo wing flavor. Like, we put that in the wonderful vehicle of a kid that everybody loves and served with French fries.

00:04:13:23 – 00:04:33:02

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Okay, so we do have chips, but it’s really about the really high quality convenience QSR plus. So really high quality. But half of our business is drive through 85% in a bag, only 15% dine in. So this that kind of help people visualize, what the restaurant is like.

00:04:33:04 – 00:04:53:04

Zack Oates

And how are you looking at. Because right now there’s a lot of movement in the market to kind of like that full service. How are you thinking in a fast casual environment? How are you combating that full service family dining? That’s kind of seems like for the first time in like 20 years, it’s kind of starting to come back.

00:04:53:06 – 00:05:22:08

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, like restaurants, like we were having a conversation before this call about this kind of like the restaurant roller coaster in general. I could have sworn that Chili’s was going to go under, you know, like five years ago. Right? Well, like, everything, you know, like, has a place. Yeah, yeah. And I think that for us, it’s our future and like kind of how we visualize it, it’s like there’s going to be places that are going to be about experience, and there’s going to be places they’re going to be all about execution.

00:05:22:14 – 00:05:45:13

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Right? So like meaning a little bit more execution because we want people to be like to know us as like it’s always good. It’s always, you know, serve fast like and grab it and it’s wholesome. Like that’s kind of more the lane we’re going down. We’re not trying to create like an experience where there’s TVs and alcohol and like it’s a long sit down like that.

00:05:45:13 – 00:06:06:13

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

But our jam, it’s really high quality. It’s really convenient and we want to own that lane and execute on your expectation. We’re not trying to kind of create necessarily like a long night out with the family, although we do have great dining experiences. Yeah. I think the other piece of that, though, is that, you know, we’re about history is being about connection, right?

00:06:06:13 – 00:06:33:24

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Like you said, we don’t have TVs, you don’t have Wi-Fi. So like if you are dining in with us, it’s about focusing in on your experience with the person you’re with or maybe by yourself. It’s about connecting, right? But I think that also goes outside the four walls. So to the families that maybe would normally go sit down somewhere where a great option to take that and have that experience at home with really high quality, great capacity, they don’t have to do the work, but they still get to have a family experience together.

00:06:33:24 – 00:06:35:11

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah, well, connection. Yeah.

00:06:35:16 – 00:06:57:15

Zack Oates

Yeah I and I think that connection is so important and that’s obviously something that I mean quite frankly that’s the reason I started ovation was that I feel like there’s so many things that in the restaurant industry we have to be perfect at everything. But the truth is like we’re not. So that’s where connection comes in because connection allows the guests to overlook imperfections.

00:06:57:21 – 00:07:21:01

Zack Oates

And so that’s why I always say it’s not about perfection, it’s about connection. Not saying we don’t strive for perfection, but you’re saying we need to be understanding that it’s not going to happen. Now, was there a moment that I’ve heard this story, like the 3 a.m. moment of like the $100,000 check? How do you overcome the challenges that it is to build a brand?

00:07:21:03 – 00:07:40:09

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Jeez, Louise, like, I mean, it’s again, back to the roller coaster like it is ebb and flow. Know. And I think that when we got into this business, we had a lot of mentors early on. And, one of the ones I remember clearly, he founded Snappy Salads and he was like, man, this game is like a persistence game.

00:07:40:11 – 00:08:04:00

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And if you can slug it out and Stan and make it multiple rounds, right the way, right the way, the other thing that I tell people who are either getting into this or trying to figure out their way in restaurant is like, if you are getting into this for money, you’re in the wrong business. There are so many other, sorry, you know, software and software company.

00:08:04:02 – 00:08:25:09

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah. I mean, yes, you are. You are not getting there done because you have to get energy and you have to get like fulfillment from, like developing people and from serving customers and being a part of a community and not a quick dollar. Right? Yeah. It’s you have to really build a brand. You have to be super patient.

00:08:25:11 – 00:09:03:21

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And restaurant economics are difficult. And the best way that they pencil or how I kind of explain it to people is like, okay, you sign a ten year lease, you got to pay off that whatever note and everything else like the first five years and then the back half, if your success is kind of the gravy train. So no matter what, you’re already up kind of against a 3 to 5 year like uphill battle, uphill battle, you know, like where you know you’re going to have lower EBITDA margins to make sure everything’s getting paid off and you’re going to win on the back half of your lease and then hopefully sign an additional five year,

00:09:03:23 – 00:09:25:04

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

extensions. So you got to roll with the punches. But I don’t know if there’s any specific moment other than like, no matter what happened, I’m going to stick this out like it’s the conviction overall is, I think, what you have to have. And I think that luckily for us, you mentioned, like we’re husband and wife, we balance each other really well.

00:09:25:04 – 00:09:48:09

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

So one of us might be freaking out in some situation more than the other in different scenarios, right? Certain things make me more anxious and certain things make him more anxious going through the whole lifecycle of the business. And but we’re there to kind of counterbalance each other and provide like reason on the other side and like, smooth it over, I guess if you all.

00:09:48:12 – 00:10:09:11

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah, I’m a little bit more like empathy, emotion and like she’s a little bit more execution. Analytic analytics and details. And so she’ll help me solve emotional problems with analytics and detail and like help me, like back me up the clip a little bit. So like because I’ll be like, or you’ll be like, it’s all gonna be all right when we’re down in traffic.

00:10:09:13 – 00:10:30:08

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Won’t sell the company that you’re like, but like it’s only one week, you know, like it’s like there are those moments, you know, that you have that on the journey. It definitely helps to have a partner in your business that is helping balance that out, because you both can’t be on the edge of it. But, you know, you gotta have like a kind of like the balance of like, I’m going to pull you back.

00:10:30:10 – 00:10:42:04

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

I’m going to apply this. I know that I can see emotionally maybe what you’re feeling. I can’t go there with you. I’m going to be the one who’s going to pull you back this time. You just catch me next time, that kind of thing.

00:10:42:04 – 00:10:50:15

Zack Oates

And are there any rules that you guys have put in place to protect your marriage from the business now?

00:10:50:18 – 00:11:11:23

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

No, it’s all the work. All the time. All the time. Using sacred ground with the house or anything like that? No, it’s actually great. Yeah. You know, because, like, a lot of, like, marriages, I think can go, I don’t know, I haven’t never been in one, but I think they can go stale. It’s kind of like, oh like, oh, well, we either talk about the kids or like, I mean, what else do you want to know?

00:11:11:23 – 00:11:29:21

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

What else do you want to talk about and everyone else to talk about, right? If you own a restaurant with your wife, you never have anything like you’ll always have a topic, right? It’s like, oh, that guy got fired. Oh my God, did you hear about this restaurant? And oh, did you read that review? No. Or how did you see the sales at this location or that catering?

00:11:29:23 – 00:11:46:12

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

We can always fall back if we want to, on villas or a restaurant. And yeah, it was what they think is the other thing that, like, kind of outside of the Diller’s realm, keep them engaged in lively conversation about, you know, pay for our travel, you know, like, oh,

00:11:46:14 – 00:11:51:12

Zack Oates

Did you guys go see you guys had a lot of shows. Do you ever like piggyback a vacation onto those shows or.

00:11:51:12 – 00:12:13:02

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

No, or I read in a day or so. Yeah. Depends on the city. I mean, like, we show up in Atlanta, we’re not like, oh, where are we now? Like, yeah, yeah. Ooh, yeah. We’re waiting for like, Maui. Yeah. Right along. Yeah I live but yeah. No. And honestly, like, we’re we’re pretty busy. We take care of ourselves, you know.

00:12:13:02 – 00:12:34:03

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

So like, at the end of the day, I guess you could say, like, when it’s like an hour of watching a show together or something like that. We’re kind of, like, out of business anyways, you know, it’s with baking cookies we have taking care of our personal things that we like to do. And so it’s usually like during the day or during the evening hours.

00:12:34:03 – 00:12:51:01

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

We can get it all. And yeah, but it provides the freedom. Like he said, we’ve got two kids, two teenagers, right. And like they have a lot going on. So it and while we may talk about it at 8 p.m. at night because we were off for an hour in the middle of the day because we had to do carpool, right?

00:12:51:01 – 00:13:02:12

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

So like, it’s it kind of like it. Where’s the lines of normal time line of work? Because it’s all encompassing, but it gives us that freedom to like, do what we need to do and be there for our good.

00:13:02:14 – 00:13:22:00

Zack Oates

Well, I think it comes down to, like in any business partnership, quite frankly, it’s like knowing what each other’s strengths are, respecting those strengths. And then, for example, like with my business partner, if it’s 9:00 at night and I’m like, oh my gosh, I have this thing I need to talk to him about, I know that he’s going to pick up the phone, right?

00:13:22:02 – 00:13:44:00

Zack Oates

Because I’m not always calling him at 9:00 at night. But I will tell you at 830 the next morning, there are like a string of slacks that go out for my account, like, because at night when I’m thinking about it, I just schedule them all out because a lot of these things aren’t urgent, like, I don’t they don’t need to be solved tonight, but if I don’t get it out of my mind that I’m, like, going to be awake right all night.

00:13:44:05 – 00:14:05:03

Zack Oates

So I think it’s amazing how you all have done that and taken this journey together from the very beginning. And when you look at one of the things that is, I think exceptional about Diller’s is the guest experience. And so like, what is your philosophy on the guest experience? Why is it so critical? Why have you invested so much into it?

00:14:05:03 – 00:14:28:22

Zack Oates

And even beyond, just like the yes, you’ve invested in tools, but you’ve also invested in your team. You’ve invested in training, like your operations mindset to build a consistent brand is just, I mean, you are in the top 1% of 1% of restaurants out there doing that and caring about that. So I’d love to hear your philosophy on the guest experience.

00:14:28:24 – 00:14:59:07

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

I’ll let Maggie kind of go to the community side, the proven process side, because even though I’m a visionary, my feet have always been in the ground operationally. So when it came time to build the company, that’s where I had the most like confidence. And so we were really focused on being able to have it be repeatable and I think that where we’ve come to a close in 2026, it’s like having a really consistent experience.

00:14:59:07 – 00:15:26:18

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Right. And I think that we’ve made very strategic decisions on eliminating things on behalf of the customer. Right. So like if we eliminate this, like it could be going cashless, it could be changing a product, it could be implementing some piece of AI or a new tool or whatever. Okay. Does that allow more time on the floor to just execute in a more meaningful way for the customer?

00:15:26:20 – 00:15:54:08

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Because as much as I would love to say that they’re there for our team first, in terms of service, I don’t think that’s the case. I think that they want their food hot, fresh, flavorful, and then fast in that order is how we try to do it. So we never sacrifice quality for speed. But speed is a component of a quality experience that’s really like kind of how we’ve approached it and operations first mindset.

00:15:54:08 – 00:16:13:02

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

I think that you would hear that from a lot of operators, like marketing, like operations is your number one marketing tool. And so we’ve said, okay, like, man, it needs to be hot and we need to be able to get it off the line into the bag, probably labeled give them what they want, right? Because if they didn’t get a smile that day, their lease going, they get what they came for.

00:16:13:02 – 00:16:33:04

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And I can’t control people and make them smile. But what we can control is the process and kind of the product that they came for. And I need to hit on that all the time. And then the other things I know that are people on board, I’m not always going to hit on. So that’s well and what we’re really the foundation of it all.

00:16:33:06 – 00:17:00:04

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah. With built into our training. I mean it’s one of our three brand promises, the unique experience. And we do have like a proven process of this like six step experience for customers. And I would say the two most critical things are the warm greeting and welcome when they walk in the door. Like not everyone does that, you know, eye contact, Reiki, high contact and like educating the customer, asking them what they want, not just telling them what your favorite is.

00:17:00:04 – 00:17:18:09

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Right? That’s on everyone. I might like brisket. You might want that’s green chilies, right? So like it’s about educating them and making it valuable to them while they’re within our four walls or even through the drive. Right. Like you can still create a special experience from the dry period and like a warm exit when they leave. I thanks for coming.

00:17:18:09 – 00:17:38:22

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Like it’s just about engaging with the customers, and that’s something that we have to really train nowadays. You know it like young people coming into the workforce, they’re by nature a little bit more reserved and not as interactive on a person to person basis. So we really strive to get them out of their shell and be very personable to make that a really unique experience.

00:17:39:02 – 00:18:02:17

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And one of the pieces that she kind of went over quickly, that is really important into the whole thing is we call it details, details, details. So when you walk into a restaurant, there is a distinct difference in my mind, right between one that has a great vibe and one that is an average location, right? Yeah. Am I going to name that crappy like you’ve read QSR magazine?

00:18:02:18 – 00:18:20:18

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And to see that, like there’s some brands right now that are declining and you walk in there and you’re like, man, this is kind of tired. Like nobody really feels like they want to be here. There’s a straw wrapper under the self-serve that to me, when I walk into a restaurant, details, detailed details to me is a Terminator mindset.

00:18:20:20 – 00:18:42:09

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie Terminator. You feel like Arnold when he looks. He’s like constantly scanning up and down, looking for a little thing, a laser. Yeah. Like that. He’s really identifying he doesn’t have a band. You’re kind of like, I blind down and I blind up. It’s the full picture, right? So what is the A’s like?

00:18:42:09 – 00:19:07:11

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Is there a straw wrapper? Is there something that’s not properly picked up over here? Is there crumbs on there in the corner on the corner which is there cobweb upon really trying to get our ship leaders and our operators at the location to really yield that kind of 360 degree experience before the customer walks in the door. So like when they do, they’re like, yeah, I don’t know what it was about villas, but like, is this a little bit better?

00:19:07:17 – 00:19:31:20

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Right. Well, let’s go there instead of X, because you’re really on that razor’s edge of margin on that decision. Because we don’t have the power of market like Raising Cane’s, Whataburger in and Out or Chick-Fil-A. So we have to win on experience and it really coaching that into the team as we earn ourselves into some of those that are marketing experiences, as what we’ve got to do.

00:19:31:22 – 00:19:50:07

Zack Oates

Someone told me one time that they said, don’t walk by problems, because how often is it like, I’m sure that there is a toy on my stairs right now that was waiting to go up to the playroom, and I walked over it all the way down the stairs, and on the way back up the stairs to get a drink.

00:19:50:07 – 00:20:16:18

Zack Oates

Down the way back down the stairs, right? Yeah, but it’s like that concept in your business of like not walking over problems. And back in my early days of advertising, there was a mantra that my company always said, which was every thing communicates everything, everything. And so if I see that wrapper or like I went to a restaurant who, by the way, like six months later, this whole entire region of this restaurant went bankrupt.

00:20:16:24 – 00:20:36:03

Zack Oates

But like, I went to this restaurant and I looked on the floor and it literally was like on the corner was caked with dirt and I was like, I will never come back here. Even if the whole surface of the restaurant was clean, the cake on the dirt in the bottom corner. Because we’ve all worked in restaurants. And what did people always say?

00:20:36:03 – 00:20:55:01

Zack Oates

They say after working there and seen what goes on in the kitchen, I’m not going to eat there again, right? But those little details of seeing that dirty corner or seeing that wrapper, it says something about what is happening. If this is happening in front of the counter, what’s happening behind the counter. Right.

00:20:55:01 – 00:21:17:10

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah. I like to run the trust business. Yes. Like it’s instilled in the team. It’s like pride in what we have. We all work really hard for this business together. So take pride in it. And like treat it like it’s your own. Like we all have. We’re all in it together. And so like that pride piece is where I think to Kyle’s point, some of that like looking at those details and wanting to put your best foot forward.

00:21:17:12 – 00:21:37:00

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Another life lesson like try to teach. But then I know that trust is a big one, you know? And like, we’re just trying to earn trust through images, earn trust through operations. And when somebody is reading you something, there is a surrender moment. There is a shit like, all right, here we go. You know, like, well.

00:21:37:01 – 00:21:39:22

Zack Oates

I hope it’s good. Am I going to get Listerine? Yeah.

00:21:39:24 – 00:21:58:06

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah. Yeah, right. I like because it’s not, you know, like, it would be rare for that instance, right. Or somebody to get sick, but like, you got to take it really seriously. And that’s why in almost every city it’s like very highly regulated, right. Like work love. And you got to have the cleaning audit. You got to have these health infection.

00:21:58:06 – 00:22:17:14

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

You gotta have hot water and you gotta be cooling and all that. So the customer comes in and they’re like giving their trust. You, hey, I’m trusting your product and nourish my body today. Can we agree on that? Right. And the things that you’re talking about are a little red flag ding ding ding that are like, maybe I shouldn’t trust them.

00:22:17:16 – 00:22:25:12

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And their website does kind of suck. Oh, they didn’t update that link. All those things speak. And I think that that’s a great point. You met.

00:22:25:14 – 00:22:55:16

Zack Oates

And the other thing about trust is especially being married, you understand this in Russian. There’s this expression because I think you guys know, I lived in Ukraine for two years, learned Russian, and they have this beautiful expression which is Luchino, which means I wanted to do something better, but it turned out like it always does. And and I feel like that’s such a good thing for marriages because, like, for example, I may try to bake some cookies and it ends up they get burnt and the whole house smells bad.

00:22:55:16 – 00:23:13:02

Zack Oates

And now it’s like I tried something nice and it turned out terrible and I’m sorry. So anyway, that was like one of the very first Russian expressions I taught my wife, because I think it just is so beautiful. But I think that part of that trust isn’t just getting it right, but it’s making it right when you get it wrong.

00:23:13:04 – 00:23:22:21

Zack Oates

And I know that you all have done such an incredible job of building a fan base with ovation. And so I just love to hear how is ovation been helpful for you? And yeah. What are your thoughts on ovation?

00:23:22:23 – 00:23:43:19

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah, I think that like using a lot of different ways. Well and go yeah, I mean to your point, it’s about like maintaining that trust. So giving the customer an outlet to feel like they can express their love or not love, lack of love or the experience. Right. But they know they’re going to get a response really quick.

00:23:43:19 – 00:24:07:07

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And I think that’s like the response time is critical when any of these experience to catch it, fix it, make it right. And our operators at ovation makes it so easy for them, like just having the app. And it’s like texting back and forth with the customer. It’s easy communication that they’re comfortable with. I mean, we all would love for customers to come up, talk to us at the store.

00:24:07:07 – 00:24:37:22

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

But like Kyle said, 85% of our business is outside of our four walls. Yeah. So that’s the way they can channel us and get their word over to us. And so I think that the technology side of it makes it so easy and portable. And like we love the leader board. It is a little bit that gamification if you will, for our operators to kind of like want to be at the top with the lowest amount of that they write and the highest response rate, but ultimately it makes their job easy to take us.

00:24:37:24 – 00:25:02:13

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah. And I’ll give a couple of high level strategic compliments to ovation. I think that one thing in 2025 we wanted to get better at was the consistency of the experience, and without the accuracy inside and without some of the other food or service insights. But we really needed to look at we wouldn’t even be able to make good decisions on that.

00:25:02:13 – 00:25:23:20

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

I think that we got around 15,000 surveys in those 11 months that we kind of look back at, right? And we’re like, that’s a good data set. We’re really getting a lot of generation of these reviews, and to be able to have something that can help you steer your business strategically and not just be kind of, oh, yeah, we need to collect customer feedback.

00:25:23:20 – 00:25:43:16

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

We got to have a resource there. And then that’s can be a mystery shop type of thing where the the GM’s hate it and are going to pay attention to it. Like it’s really something that we can leverage, to help improve the business and ultimately improve the customer’s experience. Because there’s a everybody on this thing off. Go look up this old speech.

00:25:43:16 – 00:26:06:21

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

But, Steve Jobs gave a great speech on start with the customer experience and then work your way back. Yeah. Right. Or don’t build a feature rich thing and then hope customers will come by, design it around what your customer wants. And they were telling us through feedback, we want fricking accuracy you’re messing up on like giving me the sauce or making sure that this modification is being properly done.

00:26:06:23 – 00:26:28:12

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

So being able to leverage that and steer things in the right direction was really big. And then also to to kind of echo Maggie’s point, like the glass box of it is really great because it does. We use it in every like I do a video every month and I call out, we call it the core values. We’re delivering the goods is our mission.

00:26:28:14 – 00:26:50:03

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

And then under that is our core values good food, good people, good times, working hard and keeping it clean. So all of that stuff is captured through ovation feedback. So whoever’s the highest gets called out, right, and they get the core value word for that period. It’s usually the operator that is high on satisfaction. Great. Response time.

00:26:50:09 – 00:27:19:09

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

All those things. And then also to the right of that, which I love, is that if you’re doing great, it is a direct, tangible increase to your Google. Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah. And so that funnel increased our Google. And your online reputation is for a small brand like us, an emerging 11 unit brand like your digital reputation is like probably 90% of like our word of mouth other than people this morning about it.

00:27:19:11 – 00:27:46:20

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

So you have to be good there and not table well. And like I mean, you know, we talked about it with you back like the velocity and the amount of reviews you get is so important in the algorithm. Right. And so being able to funnel people in just automatically into those reviews when they have a great experience. But I also outside of just funneling them into adding a Google review, I think that our operators do a really great job of like commenting back when they even get a good comment.

00:27:46:24 – 00:28:03:21

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

They like engaging with the customer. Like, thank you so much. Glad to hear you had a great experience today that otherwise they might not have heard. So I think it does give them positive momentum as well. And energy to take back to their team for it. They’re getting great feedback as well. It’s cool to have a customer review platform.

00:28:03:21 – 00:28:27:07

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

They can also be marketing platform when every penny counts. We can’t afford crazy things that some of the bigger brands. And so when you can make something be kind of a, I don’t know, force multiplier, like I don’t really know how to describe it, but you’re like, oh wow, we can extract a little bit more value out of that and two different ways that serve two different departments, then that kind of like really helps check lots.

00:28:27:09 – 00:28:48:09

Zack Oates

I love that appreciate that, because I think that the one thing that I think, as I was talking about that you do so well is not just the measurement of it, but the accountability of it. Right? It’s not just about making it right. It’s not just about setting systems up to fix the root problem. It’s about having the accountability that those systems are being enacted to make sure you don’t have that problem the first place.

00:28:48:11 – 00:29:15:24

Zack Oates

And I think you do such a good job of all three of those phases. And I think that’s why your in-laws were lucky to get it on the ground floor. It I think there’s going to be a podcast 20 years from now. If someone being like, wait, you worked at Dillard’s when they were like three locations? And I think that’s really exciting and, grateful to have you all as thought partners and not just people that use ovation with people that help share your feedback to make it better, because secret’s out.

00:29:15:24 – 00:29:19:20

Zack Oates

We like feedback. So I think that you’ve been very helpful and great thought partners.

00:29:19:20 – 00:29:20:05

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Over the years.

00:29:20:05 – 00:29:31:24

Zack Oates

So thank you so much for all that you do. And I know we’re over time here, but just love chatting with you guys whether or not it’s recorded. I guess final question is how do people find and follow you guys.

00:29:32:01 – 00:29:54:08

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

Yeah, easy. I mean dotcom, go to the website, check it out on there. We’re on everything else. Instagram. Mike and I both have our own handles. Kyle Gordon and Maggie Gordon on LinkedIn. We love connecting with other restaurant industry people. So if you’re in DFW ever. We’re in the northern burbs for the most part. So happy to host anyone that wants to come visit us and grab a case.

00:29:54:08 – 00:29:55:02

Kyle and Maggie Gordon

It is.

00:29:55:04 – 00:30:13:08

Zack Oates

Awesome. Well, Kyle and Maggie for caring about the guest and making it okay to put the URL back in case of Diller’s. Today’s ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us. I’m given ovation. Thank you. Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen.

00:30:13:14 – 00:30:30:05

Zack Oates

We’re all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by ovation, a two question, SMS based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you’d like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovation up.com.

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