Kayla Dillon joins Zack Oates to explore how guest expectations are moving from hospitality to humanity. As a fractional CMO and brand consultant, she helps brands choose technology that truly fits, implement it correctly, and align ops, marketing, and tech to deliver connection at scale.

From Hospitality to Humanity (05:20)

Kayla argues that guests want to feel known. “They want connection.” Personalization is the goal, but it must feel human, not generic.

Right Tech, Right Setup (03:39)

Brands often buy what a headline brand uses, then struggle. “It might be the right technology, but if you set up the right thing the wrong way, it is still the wrong thing.”

Behavior Based Loyalty (10:15)

Points for transactions miss the mark. “Reward the behavior and the interests.” If a guest is vegan, a cheeseburger blast breaks trust. Use signals to tailor offers.

Connection Beats Perfection (07:14)

Zack shares that perfection can be forgiven when there is connection. Kayla agrees. Real relationships can handle mistakes when teams respond with empathy and clarity.

AI as a Helper, Not a Replacement (12:04)

AI can scale relevance if the inputs and instructions are right. It should guide recovery and personalization, while staff deliver the last foot of the experience.

Break the Silos to Serve the Guest (13:38)

Many brands stall because ops, marketing, and tech run separate agendas. “Connect them,” Kayla says. Align on the guest journey, then choose tech and SOPs that support it.

Dillon’s playbook is practical. Choose tools that match your maturity. Implement with care. Build loyalty that recognizes patterns and preferences. Use AI to assist, not replace, your people. Most of all, measure success by connection: the feeling a guest has that you see them and can respond in ways that matter. When teams are aligned and the setup is sound, humanity shows up in every touchpoint.

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kayladdillon/

Transcript

00:00:00:06 – 00:00:25:24

Zack Oates

Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the Restaurant guest Experience podcast. I’m your host, Zack Oates, and each week I get to chat with industry experts to uncover their strategies and tactics to help you create a five star guest experience. This podcast is powered by ovation, the feedback and operations platform built for multi-unit restaurants. Learn what’s actually happening in your restaurants and exactly how to improve while driving revenue.

00:00:26:01 – 00:00:43:14

Zack Oates

Learn more at ovation up.com and I am excited! This podcast is two years in the chambers and we’re finally getting to record it. Kayla Dillon for those of you who don’t know, you’re welcome. Glad to introduce to you a total rock star. For those of you that do know, you know why I’m so excited to have her on.

00:00:43:18 – 00:01:11:18

Zack Oates

She is a fractional CMO and a brand consultant. She’s had an amazing career in the hospitality industry. I’m so excited to have her on. And the reason that this podcast has been so hard to schedule isn’t just because she’s so busy, but it’s because every time we get on to record, we just start talking because she is just a joy to talk to, and all of a sudden we’ll get 20 minutes into a 30 minute meeting and we’re like, we don’t have time now for a podcast.

00:01:11:18 – 00:01:25:16

Zack Oates

And so let’s reschedule. And we’ve done this like four times. So Kayla, even though we’re 15 minutes late because we started talking again, I’m excited that we actually are hitting record here with that introduction. How are you?

00:01:25:18 – 00:01:45:19

Kayla Dillon

I am good, and I’m very excited to finally be on this podcast as well. We talk, I use a lot and it’s always a great conversation. I’ve always respected you as a person in this industry as well as just a good human being. So I’m really excited to be a part of this today. And yeah, let’s get it rocking and rolling.

00:01:45:21 – 00:01:53:17

Zack Oates

Yeah, I mean, it’s always fun to talk to you whether or not it’s recorded. Sometimes it’s better if it’s not recorded. But we are here and this time it’s recorded.

00:01:53:19 – 00:01:58:12

Kayla Dillon

So no AirPods for how to make this happen. Internet’s going in and out.

00:01:58:14 – 00:02:04:19

Zack Oates

We figured it out, Kayla. So talk to me about what do you do as a fractional CMO and brand consultant?

00:02:04:21 – 00:02:38:14

Kayla Dillon

It’s a really great question. Right now, I’m doing a lot of technology, and one of the brands that I support, I launched an app that’s not working appropriately. So it’s just a lot like being a normal CMO. Each day is a little different, keeps it exciting, but I get to support multiple brands, which I really like. And the idea of being a fractional CMO, what really excites me about it is kind of that nuance of being able to do multiple things and being able to help multiple brands, but the idea is to be that support a lot of brands.

00:02:38:16 – 00:03:01:11

Kayla Dillon

They don’t know what they don’t know. So being able to come in and help advise, to help stabilize for them to get to that next level, whether that’s helping to train the team, helping them uncover areas of opportunity for financial improvement and help them get to that next stage in their evolution, to then eventually be able to say goodbye.

00:03:01:13 – 00:03:13:16

Kayla Dillon

Having a high churn rate for me means that I’m doing my job well, because my goal is not to be there forever. My goal to set them up for success, that’s a lot about what I do, is just making sure to set up.

00:03:13:18 – 00:03:36:21

Zack Oates

So many brands that need that, because there’s a lot of stuff where it’s like, I can get people that can run it. I just don’t know what’s the best way to do this and to get it set up. And so really powerful to bring you in, to help out, to get things rolling with a marketing initiative, with the tech initiative, and especially someone who you’re so well versed in so many different things, having used a lot of different platforms and things like that.

00:03:36:21 – 00:03:39:20

Zack Oates

So anyway, it’s super amazing to see what you’re doing.

00:03:39:22 – 00:04:01:03

Kayla Dillon

It can be daunting, right, to open up your email or your LinkedIn. If you’re a CEO or a franchise owner, you’ve got ten units, 15 units, and you’ve got all of these things saying they’re the greatest and they’re the best, right? And maybe they see an email that comes through from Nation’s Restaurant News and they say, oh, Chili’s just got this really great thing.

00:04:01:03 – 00:04:28:18

Kayla Dillon

And they think, oh, I need that. Well, that may not be the right fit, right? So what ends up happening, which is bad for the brand, bad for the tech company and ultimately bad for the consumer, is that they get them wrong when maybe they just need a scooter. So they spend all this money on technology. They don’t either have the bandwidth or the knowledge or expertise to be able to execute it, to get the insights that they need, to then enhance the guest experience.

00:04:28:20 – 00:04:44:20

Kayla Dillon

So they end up getting burned by technology, burned by sales, and then they don’t innovate and grow. And so that’s where I see a lot of brands, especially legacy brands like an Eric that’s been around for 50 plus years. Again, you get these things and you think they’re going to be great. You got to get franchisee buy in.

00:04:44:20 – 00:04:58:00

Kayla Dillon

Sometimes you just get used to the technology. And so you’re like, oh, it’s going to be too much of a lift community to tear all these things apart. And you just need someone who’s been there to help kind of guide and direct on what’s the best next step.

00:04:58:02 – 00:05:20:14

Zack Oates

It might be the right technology, but if you set up the right thing in the wrong way, it’s still the wrong thing. But setting up the right thing in the right way and having gone through the lessons and you don’t have to learn them, wow. That’s powerful. So all of this is really talking about the guest experience. And so I’d love for you to dive into what do you think are the most important aspects of guest experience?

00:05:20:16 – 00:05:40:08

Kayla Dillon

Well, I think it’s changed. We talked about this a little bit prior to this, but it’s a change, right? I think hospitality, the way that we’ve looked at it was, you know, good food, the drink, good time, good service. But really what people are looking for is the humanity of a brand. You know, they’re they’re looking for a connection.

00:05:40:08 – 00:06:02:17

Kayla Dillon

Right. That’s why people say, I want to be able to have that personalization when it comes to like, marketing and how a brand communicates to me. And that’s really hard to do at scale, really hard to do. But that reason is because the guest wants to feel like you know them. You look at loyalty programs, and I think loyalty programs in general need a full overhaul.

00:06:02:19 – 00:06:25:12

Kayla Dillon

But the whole idea of it is so that you can know your guest and you can talk to them about the things that mattered to them. And a lot of times, loyalty programs become just a one size fits all, where I, for example, maybe I’m a vegan and if you send me an email about a cheeseburger, that’s not going to make me feel like you know me or that we have a connection, right?

00:06:25:12 – 00:06:43:15

Kayla Dillon

And it is pivotal today to get as many touch points as you can to connect with that consumer and finding them kind of wherever they are, and making sure that you’re responding again with that empathy, that knowledge, and making them feel special and important. I mean, don’t you like feeling special and important?

00:06:43:17 – 00:07:14:05

Zack Oates

A man, right. And I think one of the things that we talk about beforehand is that the guest expectation is perfection. But the beautiful thing is that from the restaurant’s perspective, it’s not about perfection, it’s about connection. And we strive for perfection. But perfection can be forgiven if we fall short. If there is connection. And the same mistake that I meet someone for the first time, what if I say something rude?

00:07:14:07 – 00:07:33:06

Zack Oates

They’re going to be like, I don’t like that. Now if I have a friend who we’ve hung out two dozen times and I say the same exact thing, they may think either that’s silly that he made that comment like, I know that’s not what he actually thinks. Or they may say, Zach, you know, I just want to let you know, like, that hurt my feelings when you said that.

00:07:33:08 – 00:07:55:08

Zack Oates

And then I can apologize. But we’ve built that connection over two dozen times. And now what happens to our relationship when I say yes? You’re right. That was a dumb thing for me to say. I’m sorry I said that. Kayla, let me be better. Can you help me be better? Then all of a sudden, our friendship that goes from now we’re friends two dozen times for a visit and two dozen times hanging out.

00:07:55:10 – 00:08:12:10

Zack Oates

And that, like, accelerates it to like, 100 times because we’ve built that connection. And that’s what people want. Because no one is perfect. And everyone hates the people that are perfect. They always look for the one thing that they can like. No, they’re not perfect. See, I got them.

00:08:12:12 – 00:08:33:18

Kayla Dillon

Completely and it just strengthens the bond, right? I mean, I think sometimes we just get so in our own heads when it comes to business. Right? Just in general and especially I think when you’re looking at a hospitality like customer first business, we get so in the weeds. And so complicated where it’s like, think about you as a human.

00:08:33:20 – 00:08:53:08

Kayla Dillon

If this was a relationship, which is what it should be, you have a relationship with the customer, with the guest. Think about your own personal relationship. What matters to you when someone like Zach, thank you for apologizing, by the way, I appreciate that really hurt my feelings. Now we can be stronger together. We should think about, you know, something like that.

00:08:53:10 – 00:09:13:05

Kayla Dillon

And like what? That would make me feel versus, yeah, I’m getting kind of a spray and pray approach of like, oh, I’ll do a LinkedIn thing saying, hey, sometimes you say things that hurt people’s feelings and, well, I’m sorry if I’ve ever done that to you. That’s not going to make me feel good, is not gonna make me feel like you understood that what you said hurt my feelings.

00:09:13:07 – 00:09:33:19

Kayla Dillon

It’s just people being people. And sometimes people be people in in a bad way, and they’re annoying. And things don’t go well on both sides. But if you think about it from that perspective, I think the industry as a whole would grow and it would be more better because we need to move from this hospitality to humanity. Like, I think that’s key.

00:09:33:21 – 00:09:48:11

Zack Oates

A man, I love that, and in doing so, like I get that theory, but what are some tactics that you’ve seen that actually allow restaurants to improve the guest experience and to implement that humanity?

00:09:48:13 – 00:10:15:21

Kayla Dillon

I think a big part of that, I think it’s evolving, right. Especially when you look at I think it’s making it a lot easier to do a lot of these things. But it’s changing for like rewards. Great example. Instead of just rewarding based on transaction, look at behavior, look at interests. Look at those things that you’re doing every day as a consumer and reward that.

00:10:15:21 – 00:10:48:01

Kayla Dillon

Reward the frequency or the surprise and delight. Right? Like not just give options. That is how you’re going to move the needle, not just sending, hey, here’s $10 because you spend give 100 points. Here’s to a $10 reward. That is not the way of the future. And if you as a brand or even as a technology company, if you’re not already thinking about how do we connect based on behaviors and interests, you’re going to be left behind, because I’m telling you, that’s what the consumer wants.

00:10:48:03 – 00:11:08:07

Kayla Dillon

Even looking at again with AI last night, I needed to make dinner and I could not find I was searching through Pinterest, could not find my recipe. I was ChatGPT and said, hey, I’m looking and put in, these are my ingredients. This is what I’m looking for and it gave me probably the best meal. Me. My husband had like two servings of it.

00:11:08:07 – 00:11:12:18

Kayla Dillon

I had two servings of it. I mean, it was really good. I had an interest.

00:11:12:18 – 00:11:13:20

Zack Oates

And what was.

00:11:13:20 – 00:11:24:09

Kayla Dillon

It was a oh, I’ll send it to you. It was turkey meatloaf, cheddar ranch mashed potatoes and green beans that had all kinds of seasoning on them.

00:11:24:12 – 00:11:34:14

Zack Oates

It was it. You are a marketing powerhouse and you have time to cook a three course meal. Oh my gosh. And your great mom like this is too much, Kayla. Too much.

00:11:34:19 – 00:11:42:12

Kayla Dillon

Thank you. You’re making me blush over here. But we’ll say that survey to the kids and the husband. See, he had a smiley face or.

00:11:42:14 – 00:12:04:14

Zack Oates

Yeah, right. But but truly the like, that’s where technology is. And I just was able to show you some of the back end of ovation and see like how much I is able to help drive that connection. Now, what it comes down to though, is giving it the right instructions and having the right inputs of data. So it’s most accurate.

00:12:04:14 – 00:12:26:17

Zack Oates

If you just said, give me a mashed potato and turkey meatloaf and green bean recipe, it wouldn’t have done that. And that’s part of the power that we’ve seen of ovation is leveraging. We have saved over 1 million guests. 1 million people had a bad experience at a restaurant. They were recovered with ovation, and they verifiably came back into that restaurant and spent money.

00:12:26:19 – 00:12:49:24

Zack Oates

The reason I bring that up is because it’s so key that we learn from that context. What were the things that brought them back in? And that’s part of what we leverage to help brands recover these guests. And it needs to feel personal, and it is personal, but just because I is helping doesn’t mean that your staff is off the hook, right?

00:12:50:01 – 00:13:09:24

Zack Oates

You still need that not last mile delivery, but last foot delivery. That’s what is going to be the final cherry on top of all the other things that went into that guest experience and all the technology and everything else, it still comes down to humanity, not just of the guest, but of the people.

00:13:10:01 – 00:13:38:01

Kayla Dillon

Well, and even talking through this idea of like connection, right? When you look at it from an organizational standpoint, operations, marketing and technology, they need to connect to give the customer the best experience. And I see so many times I’ve been in those rooms where everyone’s siloed, right? Everyone has their own initiative, everyone has their own favorite priority or their own point of view.

00:13:38:07 – 00:14:07:21

Kayla Dillon

What it ends up doing is fracturing, right? The organization and never letting it move to that next level because they’re stuck and they’ve got to connect, right? Whether that is, again, a specific type of technology or an SOP or an LTO, and being able to leverage that internal organizational connection to then connect better and more efficiently with that guest, that’s what should happen.

00:14:07:23 – 00:14:16:06

Kayla Dillon

But today it’s still very much fractured, siloed, inefficient. And that’s a big challenge that needs to be solved.

00:14:16:08 – 00:14:25:21

Zack Oates

And that’s why I’m so glad that you’re out there helping restaurants do this. So who deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry? Who’s someone that we should be following?

00:14:25:23 – 00:14:28:18

Kayla Dillon

Oh gosh, that maybe people aren’t already following.

00:14:28:20 – 00:14:32:21

Zack Oates

Or maybe they are. Who do you turn to that you think is doing some great stuff?

00:14:32:23 – 00:14:54:18

Kayla Dillon

Well, oh god, there’s so many. I really enjoy what Chris Munns posts. I think he’s very insightful. I’ve worked with Chris and work with him now, so that’s not a plug to him. But by genuinely the part of the reason is because we connected on LinkedIn. I enjoyed his content and he enjoyed mine, and we started to work together because of it.

00:14:54:20 – 00:15:22:24

Kayla Dillon

He brings a really unique perspective, but if I were to actually give advice on like who? I think we especially as leaders in this industry should follow, we should follow the ones that are the up and coming right, the ones that need our support or mentorship because we know whether it’s LinkedIn or any type of social or reviews.

00:15:22:24 – 00:15:37:11

Kayla Dillon

Right? It’s all about volume. Like the more followers you have. And those are the things that help move you into an algorithm and help you connect with more people. So I would say like start looking for some of those up and comers. Let’s support them.

00:15:37:13 – 00:15:49:00

Zack Oates

Love that. And first of all, Chris Munns. Love him. He’s just such a great human as well as really, really sharp in the industry. And Caleb, where can people go to find and follow you?

00:15:49:02 – 00:16:23:21

Kayla Dillon

Well, LinkedIn’s the best place to find me, although I’m not as active recently because I’ve been really busy trying to start my own company. But there will be a website coming soon be called Go torch.com, so go to TED.com and that is where you’ll be able to find the variety of services that we use to help brands, both on the technology side and on the restaurant brand side, to take those fractured silos, burn them down and help build that bridge connection.

00:16:23:23 – 00:16:35:18

Zack Oates

Awesome. Love that so much. And Caleb, for reminding us that from family to friends to food, it’s all about connection. Today’s ovation goes to you. Thank you for joining us and giving ovation.

00:16:35:20 – 00:16:37:05

Kayla Dillon

Thank you.

00:16:37:07 – 00:16:59:20

Zack Oates

Thanks for joining us today. If you like this episode, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen. We’re all about feedback here. Again, this episode was sponsored by ovation, a two question, SMS based, actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants. If you’d like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience, visit us at ovation up.com.